#pypy IRC log for Saturday, 2011-10-29

doloFor the links on http://doc.pypy.org/en/latest/extradoc.html (Papers), I find that the following two links are broken:00:02
doloTowards a Jitting VM for Prolog Execution, C.F. Bolz, M. Leuschel, D, Schneider (http://www.stups.uni-duesseldorf.de/publications/bolz-prolog-jit.pdf)00:03
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doloAutomatic JIT Compiler Generation with Runtime Partial Evaluation (Master Thesis), C.F. Bolz (http://www.stups.uni-duesseldorf.de/thesis/final-master.pdf)00:03
bbot23Success: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/jit-benchmark-linux-x86-32/builds/92200:10
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bbot2Started: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/own-linux-x86-32/builds/181200:49
bbot2Started: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-jit-linux-x86-64/builds/54600:49
bbot2Started: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-app-level-linux-x86-64/builds/59400:49
bbot2Started: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-jit-linux-x86-32/builds/107400:49
bbot2Started: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-Ojit-no-jit-linux-x86-32/builds/78000:49
bbot2Started: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-app-level-linux-x86-32/builds/141200:49
bbot2Started: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/own-linux-x86-64/builds/67800:49
bbot2Started: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-jit-win-x86-32/builds/24400:49
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timonatorare the new results on speed.pypy.org still due to a bug or the system being used by some other process? they look pretty terrible01:18
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bbot23Success: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/jit-benchmark-linux-x86-64/builds/11901:46
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bbot24Failure: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-jit-win-x86-32/builds/24401:57
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twomashianyone around?02:45
vertebetter than being square02:46
twomashiba ding02:46
vertewhat's up?02:47
twomashiim trying to use jitviewer to see how to speed up a module02:47
twomashibut i dont. understand. anything02:48
twomashii want to speed up the json decoding02:48
verteoh, cool02:48
vertewell, there was a blog post on using the jitviewer, iirc02:49
twomashithe recent one, on the json encoder?02:49
twomashii have it working, and im looking at the output of my test02:49
twomashiits interpreting it that im stuck on.02:49
twomashiah cool..02:52
twomashiwell, unfortunately the jit viewer isnt giving me the name of the two most frequently run items02:53
verteare they fairly short? they might be top-level or internal to the interpreter02:54
twomashithe top one is 16 lines of assembly with 4 guards02:54
Alex_Gaynora regular expression perhaps?02:55
vertedoes it use regex? I didn't think it did02:56
twomashiit does02:56
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twomashialso the viewer is throwing an exception02:57
vertepretty wierd, considering parsing json only requires lookahead for character escapes02:57
twomashiit uses it to distinguish between int and float02:58
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twomashiwhich is fairly sane in some cases02:58
Alex_Gaynortwomashi: you still can based on the variable names, but we switched to symbols to make it more user friendly02:58
Action: Alex_Gaynor is moderately curious who can't understand int_mul and float_mul; but taht's life02:59
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twomashiis it normal to see so many calls to setarrayitem_gc?03:04
twomashitheres dozens of them after a return statement03:04
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vertevery common03:04
Alex_Gaynorthat's what happens when you compile a single function, rather than a loop03:04
Alex_Gaynornothing you can do about it03:04
vertethey may be clearing the valuestack03:05
Alex_Gaynoryou could del every local variable possibly, feels evil though03:06
verteoh, the locals too. good point.03:07
Alex_Gaynorthe valuestack will be empty, as long as teh final return value is just a variable, not a complex expression03:07
twomashiit does, but on the other hand, this is microoptimisation...03:08
Alex_Gaynoryeah, I'd look around elsewhere first :/03:08
timonatorhum, how would return a_complex_expression differ from foo = a_complex_expression; return foo; ?03:10
timonatoroh, well, the python opcodes would be slightly different i suppose?03:10
Alex_Gaynoryou could del any local variables between them03:10
Alex_Gaynorotherwise, not at all03:11
verteat the opcode level there's not much optimisation that goes on03:11
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timonatormhm, so what you're saying is, that del-ing every local variable before the return yields close to no performance improvement at all, yes?03:14
Alex_GaynorI have noi dea what improvement it yields03:14
Alex_Gaynorsomeone should measure it03:14
timonatorwell, it's been nice chatting with y'all03:14
Action: timonator runs away03:14
twomashiif s[end:end + 1] != ':':03:16
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twomashithat might be a good target right?03:16
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Alex_Gaynoryeah, that'll prbably generate a call, I'd rewrite it as an explicit length check + indexed lookup03:17
Alex_Gaynorif len(s) > end and s[end] !+ ':'03:17
timonatoris this something pypy could reasonably do by itself? (and is it worthwhile?)03:19
Alex_Gaynoryes, probably03:20
verteit'd be worthwhile to do in the jit, where it isn't so sensible to do slice string strategies in general03:21
Alex_Gaynoractually I think it does03:22
Alex_Gaynorthe JIT seems to automatically do it for length 1 ones03:22
twomashimight be easy to detect if the slice is only used for comparative purposes (?)03:22
twomashinevermind :p03:24
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bbot24Failure: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/own-linux-x86-32/builds/181204:09
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bbot24Failure: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-app-level-linux-x86-32/builds/141205:10
bbot24Failure: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-app-level-linux-x86-64/builds/59405:19
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bbot24Failure: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-jit-linux-x86-32/builds/107405:30
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bbot24Failure: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-Ojit-no-jit-linux-x86-32/builds/78005:33
bbot24Failure: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/pypy-c-jit-linux-x86-64/builds/54605:35
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kenaan12alex_gaynor jit-raw-array-of-struct 11bb85820f08a3 15/pypy/jit/: random changes06:03
kenaan12alex_gaynor default 11753627dbee28 15/pypy/module/pypyjit/test_pypy_c/test_containers.py: fix this test for 32-bit machines06:03
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bbot24Failure: 15http://buildbot.pypy.org/builders/own-linux-x86-64/builds/67807:56
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k_bxMorning everyone! I was playing with this article about dropbox python web site optimizations http://tech.dropbox.com/?p=89 and what I saw strange is that in this simple code http://paste.pocoo.org/show/499952/ when you put WHITELIST as a set() it actually works slower than if you just put it as a string (without set()). Without set time python main.py gives me 4.855s, while set() variant gives 5.540s12:59
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k_bx(on pypy, of course)13:00
k_bxWhich is strange, I guess, since set()'s "in" check should be faster (as I thought)13:00
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gutworthis this also true on cpython?13:03
k_bxhere's a smaller example http://paste.pocoo.org/show/499955/13:05
k_bxno, on cpython set() version is significantly faster13:05
k_bxcpython: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/499956/13:06
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gutworththis is mostly because sets are not as nicely optimized in the jit as strings13:07
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poincare101Hello everyone. I currently have flask running under python 2.7, how can I start using pypy instead? Where how are modules supposed to be saved?16:52
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ojiithe pypy/benchmarks are not mirrored to github, are they?16:56
rguillebertpoincare101, pypy is (theoretically) a direct replacement to cpython17:11
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rguillebertso you just need to run your code directly17:12
rguillebertexcept if you have C extensions17:12
fijalojii: nope17:12
fijalpoincare101: install it into a virtualenv17:13
ojiifijal, meh cloned the hg now17:13
ojiifijal, can you tell me how i can run the benchmarks locally?17:13
qbprogerfijal: I saw you were doing json perf, did you look at https://github.com/esnme/ultrajson?17:13
ojiiwanna see if i can write a benchmark of my own :D17:14
Alex_Gaynorfijal: what's up with all the crashes on pypy-c-ojit-no-jit17:17
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fijalojii: ./runner.py --help17:32
ojiifijal, yep figured it out, thanks17:33
fijalqbproger: not really, why?17:33
fijalAlex_Gaynor: no idea?17:33
Alex_Gaynorfijal: I guess someone should look :/17:33
qbprogerfijal: i was looking at their benchmarks... looked pretty impressive17:33
fijalqbproger: you mean numbers or benchmarks themselves?17:33
kenaan12alex_gaynor default 11a257711072e5 15/pypy/jit/metainterp/optimizeopt/virtualize.py: fix so these test don't rely on dict ordering17:34
kenaan12alex_gaynor default 11a3a5ac0a2daf 15/pypy/module/pypyjit/test_pypy_c/test_containers.py: merged default17:34
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qbprogerfijal: though the actual benchmarks may be interesting too17:34
fijalAlex_Gaynor: does not look very good17:35
Alex_Gaynorfijal: it's probably a pretty shallow bug, right?17:35
fijalno idea17:35
fijalwhat did we change anyway?17:36
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Alex_Gaynordunno, that was the day you merged the finalizer changes right?17:36
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Alex_Gaynorwhat GC does ojit nojit use?17:36
fijalminimark I guess17:36
Alex_Gaynorfijal: it uses the hybrid GC, I guess the bug is probably there17:36
fijalmodule tests are also broken17:37
Alex_Gaynorfijal: that's wiht -A, so no surprise17:37
Alex_GaynorI claim it's probably related to hybrid GC17:38
fijalI might have broken it for all I know17:38
Alex_GaynorI consider it likely :)17:39
Alex_Gaynorfijal: also, jvm/clr tests are broken for strip :)17:40
ojiifijal, tried to write a benchmark for that dulwich slowness i was talking about a few days ago, but for some reason it doesn't really show in the benchmark i wrote. http://dpaste.com/643602/17:42
ojiialso since i had the brilliant idea to use pypy.git as the repo to benchmark it is very slow :D17:44
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ronnyojii: afair the combination of string-slicing, regex scans, dicts and other stuff is not quite as effective as a c solution18:03
ronnyit could be a lot better if struct could deal with zero terminated strings18:04
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ojiironny, no c here, just python vs pypy18:09
ojiiremoved the c modules in dulwich in both cases18:09
ojiistill in my real application python is 2x faster18:09
ojii1.918s vs 0.926s18:10
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gutworthAlex_Gaynor: is it snowing there?18:11
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Alex_Gaynorgutworth: it did the other day, let me glance out the window18:13
Alex_Gaynorgutworth: nope ATM our skies are clear18:13
Alex_Gaynorojii: copy paste your application into the benchmark18:13
ojiiAlex_Gaynor, ugh more dependency hacking :(18:14
Alex_Gaynorojii: FWIW have you tried running your app multiple times in the same process, just to make sure it isn't a warmup time issue?18:14
ojiiAlex_Gaynor, https://github.com/ojii/gitstats.ep.io/blob/master/src/run.py18:14
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Alex_Gaynorgutworth: snowing down there?18:15
ojiinot sure how i'd back all that including the 3 dependencies + 2 modules i wrote into a benchmark18:16
Alex_Gaynorojii: have you established that the dulwich part of your application is the slow part?18:16
ojiialso it's not slow, i was just playing around to see how it performs under pypy18:16
ojiiand was surprised to see that initially it was 4x slower18:16
Alex_Gaynorslower.  it's the same as slow to me :)18:17
Alex_GaynorI'm going to run out and get lunch now, be back shortly18:17
ojiihrm i should eat diner18:17
ronnyojii: interesting18:17
ronnyojii: that basically means you have no-jit speed18:18
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gutworthAlex_Gaynor: yes18:19
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gutworthI guess we're not close enough to share weather18:19
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ojiii think i found the slow part: http://dpaste.com/643622/18:27
Alex_Gaynorojii: there we go!18:29
Alex_Gaynorojii: my only concern is that the times might be so short it's just noise, can you create a longer running one?18:29
ojiiAlex_Gaynor, how?18:29
Alex_Gaynorstick it in a loop?18:30
ojiiit is18:30
ojii1 sec18:30
Alex_Gaynorcan you paste the benchmark?18:30
ojiiha forgot to change a comment string there :D18:31
Alex_Gaynorojii: also I think this always produces no results doesn't it?18:33
Alex_Gaynoryou switched the start and end18:33
ojiierm fail...18:33
ojiiAlex_Gaynor, http://paste.pocoo.org/show/500114/18:34
Alex_Gaynorojii: can you run at -n25000 just for reference?18:35
ojiino such option: -n18:35
Alex_Gaynorojii: uh sorry, can you change wherever you set that it does 5k iterations to 25k?18:36
ojiidid it with the iteration_scaling thing18:36
Alex_Gaynoryeah can you bump up the iteraitosn, just for comparison?18:36
ojiiAlex_Gaynor, there you go: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/500117/18:38
Alex_Gaynorok so not just warmup time18:38
ojiibtw according to that tool, pypy has 153 total contributors :D18:42
Action: ojii loves statistics18:43
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Alex_Gaynorojii: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/500119/18:44
Alex_GaynorI'm using trunk FWIW18:47
exarkunojii: but what's the slope of 3 month running mean of contributors?18:56
Action: exarkun loves statistics too18:57
ojiiexarkun, i'll hopefully finish the bit of that project that makes it display more than one repo18:58
ojiiexarkun, if there's more different stats you'd want, fork it :D18:59
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fijalojii: I'll look tomorrow19:57
fijalmaybe :)19:57
ojiifijal, don't worry19:57
ojiias i said, not really a big deal19:57
fijalthis is mostly _structseq being applevel and not really nice for the JIT19:57
ojiiep.io doesn't run pypy yet anyway, so....19:57
fijalthey do, but not officially so ;-)19:57
ojiiyea that's what i meant20:00
fijalstructseq is my favorite suspect for now20:02
Alex_Gaynorfijal: we should tell carl he can write a paper by letting us have app level look_inside_iff20:06
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fijalAlex_Gaynor: mess20:13
Alex_Gaynorfijal: definitely :)20:13
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Alex_Gaynorgutworth: snowing :)20:31
RhyoliteAlex_Gaynor: it has been snowing here for awhile.  Snow in October.  Ugh!20:32
Alex_GaynorRhyolite: we had first snow a few days ago, it's pouring down again now though20:32
Rhyolitea colleague drove back from Poughkeepsie on Thursday evening and said it was a mess20:33
twomashiHi all20:34
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Alex_GaynorRhyolite: I can imagine20:40
twomashihi alex20:41
twomashido you have time to take a look at a jitviewer output for json decode and see if you can identify any bottlenecks?20:41
Alex_Gaynornot especially, have you looked at profiles from cProfile?20:42
twomashii ran it using cProfile but it ran for so long that I assumed the module didn't work properly using the pypy jit20:43
Alex_Gaynorit should20:44
Alex_Gaynorit is slower though20:44
twomashiah, perhaps i was using reguar profile20:44
twomashiso the cProfile output applies to jitted code?20:45
twomashiok great20:46
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ojiiexarkun, https://gitstats.ep.io/pypy/21:40
Alex_Gaynorojii: now is there a way to compare that to other projects?21:41
ojii(for new authors bars you might have to zoom)21:41
ojiiAlex_Gaynor, fork it!21:41
Alex_Gaynorojii: yeah, with my enormous free time ;)21:41
ojiibut yea, that's an idea i had in mind with this21:42
ojiifirst i gotta find a nicer way to auto-generate these so i don't have to run a manual command each time i want to update a graph21:42
ojiiand add more graphs :D21:42
Alex_Gaynorlast time I did the math pypy's had an average of 16 commits per day for the last 8 years or something.  pretty sure e.g. django isn't even close21:42
ojiiAlex_Gaynor, should I run django on it?21:43
Alex_Gaynorsure, why not21:43
ojiibecause it'll take forever :D21:43
ojiipypy took looong21:43
Alex_Gaynordjango has muuuuch less commits than pypy21:43
Alex_Gaynorlike half as much21:43
ojiiand building...21:43
danchrFWIW 'hg churn' gives you some nice statistics too  and it's reasonably fast with the -c option21:43
ojiidulwich is sweet21:44
ojiicompletely undocumented but still fun21:44
ojiiany other git repos anyone wants? (no, i won't do linux)21:44
ojiithose would take FOREVER to build21:44
Alex_Gaynortry running THOSE on pypy and see if it's faster :D21:45
ojiiand probably crash the browser with the amount of js they'd generate21:45
Alex_Gaynorpansy browsers!21:45
danchrojii: are you running the against Git repositories?21:45
ojiidanchr, that's git repository statistics, yes21:45
Alex_Gaynorlove the october 2010 increase21:45
ojiiof authors?21:46
danchryou might want to try running it against Mercurial repos  DAG walking is supposedly quite slow in Git21:46
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Alex_Gaynorojii: yeah, that was when myself and like 6 other people got commit :)21:46
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ojiialso like the spike in authors pypy got in nov 201021:46
ojiinot spike, but increased speed in 'cumulative authors'21:47
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Action: ojii looks for more interesting git repos21:48
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kenaan12matthp numpy NDimArray 11a2f79669b123 15/pypy/module/micronumpy/interp_numarray.py: NDimSlice22:35
kenaan12mattip numpy NDimArray 114ef01c9532c9 15/pypy/module/micronumpy/interp_numarray.py: print of ndarray works (kindof)22:35
kenaan12mattip numpy NDimArray 11827d5d5d5218 15/pypy/module/micronumpy/: Slices work for get and set22:35
kenaan12mattip numpy NDimArray 1129e96633349c 15/: Merge22:35
Action: pjenvey didn't even know branch names could have whitespace22:35
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Alex_GaynorMatti_: FYI fijal started working on multi-dim as well in a seperate branch22:39
Matti_I have just comitted some updates to numpy NDim, now slices work.22:40
Matti_Ahh, can we merge our stuff somehow? I will have to check out what fijal did.22:40
Matti_For what it's worth, in my branch you can do things like22:41
Matti_import numpy22:41
Alex_Gaynorhis branch is `numpy-multidim`, I'd send a mail to pypy-dev and coordinate with him22:41
Alex_Gaynorobviously we don't want any duplicate work22:41
Alex_GaynorI think he's probably in bed ATM22:41
Alex_GaynorI think that works on his branch as well, but I'm only kinda following, please send a mail to the mailing list22:42
Matti_OK, gnight22:43
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timonatori wonder when bool-arrays for slicing and comparison arrays will work22:49
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