| Ademan | anyone around? | 00:03 |
|---|---|---|
| xorAxAx | just ask | 00:06 |
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| Ademan | xorAxAx: well in pypy.objspace.sliceobject.W_SliceObject there's a method indices4() which I think would be very useful as a free function (for use in conjunction with space.decode_index) and I was wondering where I should put it (i wouldn't remove it from W_SpaceObject obviously) | 00:29 |
| xorAxAx | you want to duplicate code!? | 00:29 |
| xorAxAx | move it somewhere into rlib | 00:29 |
| Ademan | xorAxAx: hah, don't implicate me! | 00:30 |
| xorAxAx | you said you wouldnt remove it :-P | 00:30 |
| Ademan | move the implementation to wherever then call it in W_SpaceObject.indices4 for compatibility, sheesh! :-p | 00:30 |
| xorAxAx | ah, thats something entirely different, my bad! | 00:31 |
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| fijal | hi | 01:54 |
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| Alex_Gaynor | evening fijal | 01:56 |
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| fijal | Alex_Gaynor: hi | 01:58 |
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| magcius | Where did the lang folder go? | 02:32 |
| fijal | to lang directory :) | 02:33 |
| fijal | up one or two levels | 02:34 |
| Ademan | fijal: i want to move W_SpaceObject.indices4 into a "globally accessible" location (so that it can be used in conjunction with space.decode_index) where should i put it? | 02:52 |
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| Ademan | W_SliceObject* | 02:52 |
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| fijal | Ademan: hm | 02:54 |
| fijal | probably a helper on space would be the best place | 02:54 |
| fijal | Ademan: why you can't use a method on W_SliceObject? | 02:55 |
| Ademan | fijal: well, i thought decode_index was quite nifty, i'll show you what i'm currently doing | 02:56 |
| fijal | would be good, yes :) | 02:56 |
| fijal | how was improving the test coverage? | 02:56 |
| fijal | I can run coverage report for you if you like | 02:56 |
| Ademan | fijal: well i found some truly horrifying bugs while trying to fix regressions i created | 02:57 |
| Ademan | it looks like nonsquare matrices break multidimarrays now... | 02:58 |
| fijal | good | 02:59 |
| fijal | please write test for each thing you do | 02:59 |
| Alex_Gaynor | possibly even befor eyou do it :) | 02:59 |
| Ademan | fijal: so http://paste.pocoo.org/show/174456/ is sdarray.py line 24 is the stolen W_SliceObject.indices4 code, and 174 is an example usage | 02:59 |
| Ademan | fijal: can you tell the other guy? it wasn't my code... | 03:00 |
| fijal | basically I would like you to commit things one by one, each with test | 03:00 |
| fijal | did the other guy's code break tests? | 03:01 |
| Ademan | no but it added new, insufficiently tested features (the nonsquare matrices thing is a new development) | 03:01 |
| Ademan | i wrote a test that will catch it though | 03:01 |
| Ademan | i'll try and avoid monilithic commits like i'll be doing soon... in the future | 03:02 |
| fijal | how about doing it now? | 03:03 |
| fijal | then revert it | 03:04 |
| fijal | basically write a test and revert this with sufficient commit message | 03:04 |
| fijal | "this commit came with no tests and it's broken, see skipped test" | 03:04 |
| fijal | personally, I would like solid features first | 03:04 |
| fijal | and then new | 03:04 |
| fijal | Ademan: really, start avoiding monolithic commits just now | 03:05 |
| Ademan | yeah, although i'm excited to have a translatable implementation in the repository... and i've been busting my butt to do it too... | 03:05 |
| fijal | take your working copy | 03:05 |
| fijal | and commit each feature you added by doing tedious diffing | 03:05 |
| fijal | each one with a test | 03:05 |
| fijal | how about that? | 03:05 |
| Ademan | :-/ fine | 03:05 |
| fijal | Ademan: I hope I'm not mean, I'm more trying to get you going with our development practices | 03:05 |
| fijal | which I think are superior :) | 03:06 |
| Ademan | i understand, you're just frustrating sometimes :-p | 03:06 |
| fijal | sorry about that | 03:06 |
| Ademan | hahah i'm jk | 03:06 |
| fijal | I'm really trying to be nice :) | 03:06 |
| Alex_Gaynor | oh hey I started translating pypy earlier | 03:06 |
| Alex_Gaynor | forgot about that | 03:06 |
| fijal | I'm just not a nice person | 03:06 |
| fijal | Alex_Gaynor: takes a while, heh? | 03:07 |
| Alex_Gaynor | fijal: dunno, I svn up'd when I got back from class, started translating and then I worked for the rest of the afternoon. I have one shell with many tabs and I forgot about it | 03:07 |
| fijal | Ademan: in exchange, I can review each commit, deal? | 03:08 |
| Alex_Gaynor | fijal: who do you work for? | 03:08 |
| fijal | Alex_Gaynor: merlinux, sometimes | 03:09 |
| fijal | why do you ask? | 03:09 |
| Alex_Gaynor | just curious, you seem to have tons of time to work on pypy :) | 03:09 |
| Alex_Gaynor | I figured either you have an awesome job, or very good time management skills | 03:09 |
| fijal | or I'm just very poor | 03:09 |
| fijal | or have rich parents | 03:10 |
| Ademan | fijal: haha only if you have time | 03:10 |
| Alex_Gaynor | fijal: it's not polite to ask those questions ;) | 03:10 |
| Ademan | i wish i had more time | 03:10 |
| fijal | Alex_Gaynor: tbh, I don't even have a car | 03:10 |
| Ademan | fijal: so would it be acceptable if I added the test on top of the current HEAD ? rather than reverting and commiting it together with the test? | 03:11 |
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| fijal | Ademan: is current head broken? | 03:11 |
| Ademan | fijal: according to the tests i've written, i'm fairly certain | 03:12 |
| Ademan | i'd need to try out my tests on a clean working copy | 03:12 |
| Ademan | to be sure | 03:12 |
| fijal | I would rather have no features than buggy features | 03:12 |
| fijal | a revert then sounds fine | 03:12 |
| fijal | provided that a commit message explains it correctly | 03:12 |
| raymondh | If you guys see Laura in the chatroom today, please encourage her to run for the PSF board. Today is the last day to self-nominate. | 03:13 |
| Ademan | i haven't seen her for a long time... | 03:13 |
| raymondh | Hmm. | 03:14 |
| fijal | raymondh: how about writing her a mail? | 03:14 |
| fijal | she's probably sleeping, though you never know | 03:14 |
| raymondh | I wrote to her yesterday but didn't have a response yet. | 03:16 |
| Ademan | fijal: alright well i'll try out the test on a fresh working copy | 03:16 |
| fijal | raymondh: not sure what else we can do | 03:16 |
| fijal | raymondh: you can write to samuele pedroni, who is in direct contact | 03:16 |
| fijal | I'm in the US | 03:16 |
| raymondh | Will do. Thx. | 03:17 |
| gutworth | I'd vote for her :) | 03:18 |
| Ademan | I'm sure there's a clean way to accomplish all this with svn, but staging commits from your working copy is one thing git does quite well | 03:19 |
| Alex_Gaynor | If I had a vote I'd vote for Tim Peters, he understands that python is too big to fail and that we need TARP money | 03:19 |
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| Ademan | brb making dinner | 03:25 |
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| Electronic[sleep | Ademan, hi. | 04:51 |
| Electronic[sleep | Why indices4 is not suitable for you? | 04:52 |
| Electronic[sleep | Because we need to check space.is_true(space.isinstance(w_index, space.w_slice)) ? | 04:53 |
| Electronic[sleep | And behaivour of decode_index... | 04:53 |
| Electronic[sleep | Why do you check stop==0? If i want empty slice 0:0, what will you do? | 04:54 |
| Electronic[sleep | BTW have you done many new features? I've done operators for multidimensional arrays. | 04:55 |
| Electronic[sleep | It may be time to merge. | 04:55 |
| Nick change: Electronic[sleep -> ElectronicRU | 04:56 | |
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| Ademan | ElectronicRU: well most of what you did isn't valid rpython, including your handling of slices, so it has to change either way, decode_index is a nice way to accomplish it that IS RPython | 05:21 |
| ElectronicRU | indices4 is not rpython? It is used in listobject.py! | 05:24 |
| ElectronicRU | And afaik there is no task now to compile pypy. I won't compile anyway. | 05:25 |
| Ademan | not indices4, your entire slice implementation | 05:27 |
| ElectronicRU | compute_slices() ? | 05:28 |
| ElectronicRU | Or creating new objects for storing slices? | 05:28 |
| ElectronicRU | Or what? | 05:28 |
| Ademan | well first of all calling indices4 on a W_Root object | 05:29 |
| ElectronicRU | Hmmm... Is there a way to explicitly typecast it to slice? | 05:34 |
| ElectronicRU | Well, we can use decode_index, but in 'if space.is_true(... w_slice)):' | 05:35 |
| ElectronicRU | Because of 0:0 :) | 05:35 |
| Ademan | well, if step is 0 it's an invalid slice anyways right? so testing step for 0 instead of stop would be correct | 05:40 |
| fijal | assert | 05:49 |
| fijal | explicit cast is an assert isinstance(x, W_SliceObject) | 05:49 |
| fijal | ElectronicRU: 71014 came with no test | 05:50 |
| fijal | it's usually enough to revert without looking | 05:50 |
| fijal | do you feel like writing tests for that checkin? | 05:50 |
| Ademan | fijal: so that'll down cast? | 05:51 |
| Action: Ademan learned something | 05:51 | |
| fijal | yeah | 05:51 |
| Ademan | the annotator is interesting lol | 05:51 |
| fijal | that'll let you call methods of W_SliceObject | 05:51 |
| fijal | ElectronicRU: or at least test coverage is not enough | 05:52 |
| ElectronicRU | All stuff I done I tested. | 05:53 |
| ElectronicRU | Although my blame is using square array for test. | 05:53 |
| ElectronicRU | Ademan, if x:0:0 we must raise; if x - return. If x:0:0 we will return self[x], which is not valid. | 05:54 |
| Ademan | square is fine, but be sure to test nonsquare too, i was working on that but if you want to do it yourself you're welcome to | 05:54 |
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| ElectronicRU | fijal, thanks for explicit typecast. W_SliceObject is is the same place where W_Root? | 05:54 |
| Ademan | pypy.objspace.std.sliceobject | 05:55 |
| Ademan | also: fair enough, just do the explicit cast then | 05:55 |
| fijal | ElectronicRU: can you run py.test -p figleaf and stare at generated html? | 05:56 |
| fijal | ElectronicRU: obvious thing is that you added __rmul__ although no test exercises that | 05:57 |
| ElectronicRU | There was use case for __radd__ (value+array) in test. | 05:57 |
| ElectronicRU | So I've added all __r__'s. | 05:58 |
| fijal | is it tested? | 05:58 |
| Ademan | i should also note that ufunc.py isn't rpython anymore (since a long time ago...) because arrays can now be different types | 05:58 |
| ElectronicRU | It equicode with __*__'s. | 05:58 |
| fijal | in general (not blaming you particular) I'm not too happy about test coverage of micronumpy | 05:59 |
| fijal | Ademan: let's ignore being RPython for now | 05:59 |
| ElectronicRU | Ademan, No module named std.sliceobject | 05:59 |
| ElectronicRU | Where is W_SliceObject | 05:59 |
| fijal | ElectronicRU: in pypy/objspace/std/sliceobject.py | 05:59 |
| ElectronicRU | Oh, i have written pypy.interpreter. | 06:00 |
| Ademan | fijal: we're so close to completely rpython though... :-/ but fine | 06:02 |
| ElectronicRU | So, I'm going out. But ===WARNING=== could not import plugin 'pytest_figleaf', reason: "could not import 'figleaf.annotate_html'" | 06:02 |
| fijal | ElectronicRU: install figleaf python package | 06:03 |
| fijal | http://codespeak.net/~fijal/html/index.html | 06:04 |
| fijal | uploaded coverage run | 06:04 |
| fijal | http://codespeak.net/~fijal/html/_home_fijal_lang_python_pypy-micronumpy_pypy_module_micronumpy_sdarray.py.html | 06:04 |
| fijal | __setitem__ coverage is not good for example | 06:04 |
| fijal | anyone every iterates in test single dim array, or is this figleaf getting wrong data? | 06:04 |
| Ademan | fijal: well that looks like an old revision | 06:05 |
| fijal | fixed | 06:06 |
| fijal | ElectronicRU, Ademan: in general, I'm not too happy about the coverage. I would like to improve this first before adding more features | 06:06 |
| fijal | and yes, I appreciate the work you're both doing, don't get me wrong :) | 06:07 |
| Ademan | ElectronicRU: do you want to write the test for mdarray or do you want me to? it sounds like that's the first thing we need to do | 06:13 |
| Ademan | i still need to update my version of py.test so that i can properly figleaf though... | 06:15 |
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| fijal | eh | 06:22 |
| fijal | I'm sort of sorry, I should have spent more time on numpy | 06:22 |
| fijal | but as usual, I'm sort of busy | 06:22 |
| Ademan | fijal: it's alright, i'm probably not as busy as you, but between school and work, i've had little time myself | 06:23 |
| kenaan | 03dan 10r7112214 07M(pypy/branch/micronumpy/pypy/module/micronumpy/test/test_numpy.py): Added tests for non-square multi-dimensional arrays, currently skipping them. ... | 06:53 |
| kenaan | 03dan 10r7112314 pypy/branch/micronumpy/pypy/module/micronumpy 07M(mdarray.py test_numpy.py): Converted mdarray.shape to tuple. Un-skipped test that depended on it. ... | 06:56 |
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| Ademan | can closed-over functions that are at the module level reference closed over class instances? | 08:29 |
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| mwhudson | Ademan: not completely sure what you mean, but probably yes | 09:13 |
| Ademan | mwhudson: one sec i'll make a paste | 09:17 |
| Ademan | mwhudson: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/174494/ | 09:18 |
| Ademan | notice how result() needs to be able to access result_factory | 09:19 |
| mwhudson | Ademan: i think that should be fine | 09:19 |
| Ademan | thanks mwhudson i'm holdin you to it :-p | 09:21 |
| mwhudson | Ademan: i'm willing to provide a full refund if i turn out to be wrong :-) | 09:21 |
| Ademan | hahah | 09:22 |
| Ademan | mwhudson: the class is redundant... isn't it? | 09:23 |
| mwhudson | well, in this case probably | 09:23 |
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| Ademan | yeah, vestigial of when result_factory was at the module level | 09:24 |
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| kenaan | 03dan 10r7112414 pypy/branch/micronumpy/pypy/module/micronumpy 07M(dtype.py mdarray.py sdarray.py): Shortened array factory code. ... | 09:38 |
| Ademan | i just realized, are lambdas rpython in the first place? or does it matter in that case since it's created at import time? | 09:55 |
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| mwhudson | Ademan: right, you can't define new functions at runtime | 10:01 |
| mwhudson | you can get away with all kinds of crazy stuff at import time though | 10:01 |
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| ElectronicRU | Ademan, let me do it. Anyway, I should test already-written operators for mdarray. | 11:08 |
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| ElectronicRU | fijal, does annotator takes in mind what conditions are in 'if'? I've thought that instead of checking space.isinstance and asserting isinstance I may just check isinstance(W_SLiceObject). | 11:10 |
| ElectronicRU | <mwhudson> Ademan: right, you can't define new functions at runtime | 11:11 |
| ElectronicRU | Nested functions are unallowed too? | 11:11 |
| antocuni | ElectronicRU: nested functions are fine, as long as you create them at translation time | 11:19 |
| antocuni | ElectronicRU: and yes, the annotator know how to deal with "if isinstance(xxx)" | 11:20 |
| ElectronicRU | Thanks. | 11:20 |
| ElectronicRU | And what about case of mixedmodule? | 11:20 |
| ElectronicRU | Their functions are called runtime, eh? | 11:21 |
| antocuni | ElectronicRU: I'm not sure to understand the question | 11:22 |
| Action: antocuni tries to write a minimal example | 11:22 | |
| antocuni | ElectronicRU: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/174511/ | 11:24 |
| ElectronicRU | http://pastebin.com/ff7f6d1d NOT_RPYTHON? | 11:25 |
| ElectronicRU | Oh, nothing to worry about. | 11:26 |
| ElectronicRU | This function is used translate-time. | 11:26 |
| antocuni | ElectronicRU: indeed, if it's called at translation time it's fine | 11:27 |
| ElectronicRU | http://pastebin.com/f2f9e2e3e | 11:27 |
| ElectronicRU | This won't work? | 11:27 |
| antocuni | ElectronicRU: I think it should work, but it's too long to read it carefully :-) | 11:30 |
| ElectronicRU | main issue is in function dot: there is function _dotit. | 11:31 |
| antocuni | ah right | 11:31 |
| antocuni | yes, it won't compile | 11:32 |
| antocuni | ElectronicRU: why can't you just move _dottit outside dot? | 11:32 |
| ElectronicRU | Oh, I shold pass space, two arrays... Oh my! But if it's necessary... | 11:33 |
| antocuni | yes, it is :-) | 11:38 |
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| magcius | PyPy interprets Python code, right? Like, I could just compile the PyPy interpreter and pass it a string of Python code at runtime, right? | 15:25 |
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| fijal | magcius: yeah | 15:48 |
| fijal | Ademan: weren't you supposed to kill all the result factory stuff? | 15:48 |
| magcius | Okay, how is the PyPy interpreter supposed to know about files and such under another VM? | 15:58 |
| magcius | (What if the VM doesn't support file reads/writes?) | 15:58 |
| fijal | "under another VM"? | 15:59 |
| fijal | what do you mean? | 15:59 |
| magcius | Like JVM or CLI | 16:02 |
| magcius | (or Tamarin) | 16:02 |
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| fijal | you have to fake it I guess | 16:06 |
| fijal | pedronis: hi | 16:07 |
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| magcius | fijal, I'm asking where/how it translates file objects | 16:09 |
| magcius | Or where there's support for that in the interpreter. | 16:10 |
| magcius | IIRC files are very important to PyPy. | 16:10 |
| fijal | for example cli has a directory called src | 16:10 |
| fijal | there are external functions that are supported by cli | 16:10 |
| magcius | I didn't see anything file-related in there, but I'll check again | 16:11 |
| magcius | Oh. I misspoke | 16:11 |
| magcius | Sorry | 16:11 |
| fijal | there is ll_os | 16:12 |
| pedronis | it's all a bit of a kludge because we assume file descriptors | 16:14 |
| magcius | yeah, I only see two references to it in the *.py files in the cli directory, neither of them apparently are related to loading the modul | 16:14 |
| magcius | e | 16:14 |
| magcius | which are rte.py and database.py | 16:14 |
| fijal | magcius: you have to look at cli files | 16:14 |
| fijal | not py files | 16:14 |
| fijal | in src directory | 16:14 |
| magcius | fijal, yeah, but where is this module loaded at runtime? | 16:15 |
| fijal | the module is all written in rpython you don't have to worry | 16:15 |
| fijal | you have to provide os.open and friends basically | 16:15 |
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| magcius | And how do I "link" the two together? | 16:16 |
| fijal | the two being? | 16:17 |
| fijal | you have to provide os.open which returns a file descr (a number) | 16:17 |
| fijal | that can be passed to os.read | 16:17 |
| fijal | a bit tedious, I know | 16:17 |
| magcius | And I provide os.read too? | 16:17 |
| magcius | how do I link the support file I make and the rpython module together? | 16:17 |
| magcius | ohhh | 16:23 |
| magcius | it does generator.call_primitive("ll_os", "read") or whatever. | 16:24 |
| pedronis | yes | 16:26 |
| magcius | okay, okay | 16:28 |
| Action: xorAxAx hands magcius the scroll of grep | 16:30 | |
| magcius | xorAxAx, I was using rgrep | 16:30 |
| magcius | xorAxAx, I was grepping for "ll_os", not "pypy.builtin" | 16:30 |
| pedronis | well the relevant code starts in oosupport/metavm.py _Call and get_primitive_name | 16:35 |
| magcius | yeah | 16:39 |
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| fijal | ElectronicRU: hey | 16:58 |
| ElectronicRU | Hello. | 17:01 |
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| kenaan | 03fijal 10r7112814 07M(pypy/benchmarks/own/gcbench.py): fix comment ... | 18:22 |
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| kenaan | 03fijal 10r7112914 pypy/benchmarks 05A(spitfire.py) 07M(benchmarks.py): Add running the original version of spitfire, named spitfire and ... | 18:44 |
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| hpk | fijal: could you give the "slower" benchmarks a red rounding or so? | 19:12 |
| hpk | and did you get to do the second version with pypy-c? | 19:12 |
| fijal | can you explain what means "red rounding"? | 19:13 |
| fijal | nope, didn't get to it | 19:13 |
| hpk | i mean a red frame, instead of the grey one - or some other easy-to-detect marker that a benchmark is slower | 19:13 |
| hpk | i mean pypy-c-jit is slower than cpython | 19:13 |
| hpk | well, maybe it's fine - i just look for the red "slower" i guess | 19:14 |
| fijal | I would say red slower is fine | 19:14 |
| hpk | can you make the title be closer to its belonging box? | 19:15 |
| hpk | the titles are almost closer to the wrong box | 19:15 |
| fijal | well, it's the CSS question | 19:15 |
| hpk | in my firefox 3.5 | 19:15 |
| fijal | it's a css question even | 19:16 |
| hpk | um, yes, so what? | 19:16 |
| fijal | I don't know :) | 19:16 |
| fijal | do you know any css? | 19:16 |
| Action: Ademan does | 19:16 | |
| hpk | a bit - but i am sure there are people here who know a lot more :) | 19:17 |
| Action: Ademan needs to get to work, but if it's unresolved in 8 hours I'll be happy to help | 19:17 | |
| fijal | there should be some margin thingie, lemme have a look... | 19:18 |
| Ademan | margin-bottom | 19:18 |
| magcius | I know CSS. | 19:18 |
| hpk | gah. firefox is behaving worse and worse for me - in terms of hanging, not restarting and other fun behaviour | 19:18 |
| Action: Ademan returns to uselessness | 19:18 | |
| magcius | fijal, what's the HTML file? | 19:19 |
| fijal | magcius: in http://codespeak.net/svn/pypy/build/bot2/jsplot/ | 19:19 |
| fijal | plotsummary.html | 19:19 |
| magcius | Can I see it in use? | 19:20 |
| fijal | http://buildbot.pypy.org/plotsummary.html | 19:20 |
| magcius | Thanks. | 19:20 |
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| fijal | it's about the margin between text and a graph | 19:20 |
| magcius | And what do you want to do? | 19:20 |
| magcius | Make the background red for those that say "slower"? | 19:20 |
| hpk | a text usually belongs to the box below it, and it should be closer to it | 19:20 |
| magcius | arrgh firefox | 19:21 |
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| magcius | It's a table. | 19:22 |
| magcius | margin doesn't work on tables | 19:22 |
| kenaan | 03fijal 10r7113014 07M(pypy/build/bot2/jsplot/css/main.css): an attempt to put text closer to graphs ... | 19:23 |
| hpk | much better in my browser now | 19:23 |
| magcius | oh | 19:24 |
| magcius | okay | 19:24 |
| fijal | hpk: good :) | 19:24 |
| magcius | put margin: 0; in .smallcaption | 19:24 |
| magcius | yeah, that's what you did | 19:24 |
| hpk | fijal: sorting by speed would also be nice, maybe - then the "red" issue just vanishes | 19:24 |
| hpk | i.e. have the slowest ones first or last | 19:24 |
| fijal | maaaybe | 19:25 |
| fijal | however, I don't want order to swap | 19:25 |
| fijal | at random points in time | 19:25 |
| fijal | I'm happy with alphabetical order | 19:25 |
| hpk | well, this would mean that pypy performance randomly swaps which would be interesting to notice, wouldn't it? :) | 19:25 |
| magcius | fijal, mind making the td have a class "slower" when it's slower? | 19:25 |
| fijal | heh | 19:25 |
| fijal | magcius: why? | 19:26 |
| hpk | fijal: i claim it's actually interesting information, the ordering by speed, whereas alphabetical is pointless | 19:26 |
| magcius | fijal, you could make them have a background color for better visual stats. | 19:26 |
| fijal | honestly, I don't have opinions a bit on that | 19:28 |
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| hpk | fijal: why not say flat right you don'T want to change things and leave it the way *you* like it? :) | 19:28 |
| hpk | thanks anyway for the moving of the text :) | 19:29 |
| fijal | hpk: I'm more on to "feel free to hack on it if you like, I won't oppose" | 19:29 |
| fijal | it's a bit irreleveant to me | 19:29 |
| exarkun | It probably will be a simple change, yes. What I'm mostly interested in is what it will break, and whether there is a way to have an intermediate period where the behavior is still provided, by anyone relying on it gets warned that it's going away. | 19:29 |
| exarkun | oops, wrong window | 19:29 |
| hpk | applicable maybe anyway :) | 19:30 |
| fijal | exarkun: it actually fits in the mood though :) | 19:30 |
| fijal | hpk: in fact, I would be more than happy if more people get their grip on that stuff :) | 19:30 |
| exarkun | heh | 19:30 |
| hpk | fijal: naturally, we all have bits we care for where we would like others to help as well :) | 19:31 |
| fijal | yeah | 19:31 |
| fijal | hpk: do you stay for pycon sprints? | 19:32 |
| fijal | at least a bit? | 19:33 |
| hpk | intend to leave on monday, so no | 19:33 |
| hpk | my GF is with me, and being around tutorials, the conf is already quite some occupied time (she'll attend the conf as well, is interested in things) | 19:33 |
| fijal | ok | 19:34 |
| hpk | we haven't booked our fly away from atlanta yet, so maybe i stay a day longer or so - what are your plans? | 19:34 |
| fijal | so no chance sitting on sandboxed gw :) | 19:34 |
| fijal | I stay for whole sprints | 19:35 |
| hpk | hum, let's see how things evolve | 19:35 |
| hpk | i'd like to spend some hours with you on that | 19:35 |
| fijal | hpk: I'll do the pypy-c no-jit run today, just will wait for run to finish | 19:35 |
| hpk | cool - do you know already the results? | 19:36 |
| fijal | of pypy-c-nojit run? | 19:36 |
| fijal | no | 19:36 |
| hpk | ah - and "today" means something different now i realize :) | 19:36 |
| fijal | heh, yes :) | 19:37 |
| hpk | tonight is a shuttle start i think, a couple of hundred kms away from you | 19:38 |
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| fijal | hpk: you can actually buy a shuttle | 19:46 |
| fijal | for the price of taking it away or something | 19:46 |
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| kenaan | 03fijal 10r7113114 07M(pypy/build/bot2/pypybuildbot/builds.py): Add a step that runs benchmarks agains pypy without jit as well ... | 19:49 |
| gutworth | what is testrunner anyway? | 19:50 |
| hpk | fijal: there certainly are people going for that - and they certainly don't get all the electronics with it | 19:50 |
| fijal | hpk: it's very costly to take it away | 19:51 |
| fijal | actually, it's restricted to "US educational organization" | 19:51 |
| fijal | or something like this | 19:51 |
| hpk | gutworth: IIRC it's for running tests in separate processes per-directory - it was written by samuele | 19:52 |
| gutworth | ah | 19:54 |
| pedronis | really me+iko | 19:58 |
| gutworth | is it used for anything? | 20:13 |
| fijal | for nightly runs | 20:13 |
| pedronis | for our own tests runs | 20:15 |
| pedronis | it parallizes tests and does other things like catch segfaults etc | 20:15 |
| nsf | http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/which-programming-language-is-fastest.php - omg, LuaJIT2 is about 4x faster than google Go on benchmarks.. :P | 20:15 |
| Action: nsf thought that it is impossible | 20:16 | |
| fijal | nsf: those benchmarks are a bit overly numeric to compare real-world usage | 20:16 |
| fijal | nsf: why, because go's folks said "it's awesome"? | 20:17 |
| nsf | i mean beat statically-typed compiled language with dynamic JIT :) | 20:17 |
| nsf | fijal: well, it's still an impressive result :) | 20:17 |
| fijal | besides, computer language shootout is not very good at running benchmarks | 20:17 |
| MostAwesomeDude | nsf: You must be new here. :3 | 20:17 |
| xorAxAx | nsf: brainfuck on .net vm is a few times faster than a native version of it | 20:17 |
| xorAxAx | nsf: (compiled brainfuck) | 20:17 |
| nsf | MostAwesomeDude: yep | 20:17 |
| nsf | xorAxAx: :D | 20:17 |
| fijal | nsf: I was unable to repeat their results to a large degree | 20:17 |
| nsf | he-he | 20:18 |
| fijal | and also was unable to contact them | 20:18 |
| Action: gutworth worries a lot about bf preformance | 20:21 | |
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| xorAxAx | gutworth: apparently MS did :) | 20:22 |
| kenaan | 03fijal 10r7113214 07M(pypy/build/bot2/jsplot/js/plot.js): A hack to allow displaying nonjit results. We might want further integration ... | 20:23 |
| fijal | hpk: http://buildbot.pypy.org/plotsummary.html?nojit | 20:25 |
| fijal | you might need to C-refresh some of your JS urls | 20:25 |
| fijal | http://buildbot.pypy.org/js/plot.js | 20:25 |
| fijal | like this one | 20:25 |
| Alex_Gaynor | fijal: I assume the purpose of this is to see how the run time compares? | 20:26 |
| hpk | fijal: the legend is wrong, it still says pypy-c-jit | 20:27 |
| hpk | so to begin with: AI gets twice as slow with the jIT | 20:28 |
| hpk | no, wrong, sorry | 20:28 |
| fijal | Alex_Gaynor: I'm not sure yet what's the purpose | 20:28 |
| Alex_Gaynor | hehe | 20:29 |
| fijal | Alex_Gaynor: it's frustrating that perf.py does not support more than two interpreters | 20:29 |
| Alex_Gaynor | fijal: yes, would be nice for it to do more, no reason it can't though | 20:30 |
| fijal | "it's work" reason | 20:30 |
| Alex_Gaynor | :) | 20:30 |
| hpk | fijal: ok, so pypy-c-jit is faster than pypy-c everywhere - maybe it makes more sense to compare pypy-c against pypy-c-jit after all, that's at least what i was interested in | 20:31 |
| hpk | i guess that would be a trivial change | 20:31 |
| hpk | unless mechanics make it hard :) | 20:31 |
| hpk | and eventually pypy-c-jit against unladden swallow - such 3 different pages would cover the basic needs and interests IMO | 20:33 |
| Alex_Gaynor | hpk: it should really only be one page though | 20:33 |
| hpk | yes, maybe - but mostly those are three different angles of comparing and if having more than 2 is difficult/too-much-work than i'd be fine with 3 pages | 20:34 |
| fijal | hpk: except then we would need to nightly build US | 20:34 |
| pedronis | fijal: so we are marginally slower on spitfire and faster on spitfire_cstringio | 20:34 |
| fijal | or something | 20:34 |
| fijal | pedronis: yes | 20:35 |
| pedronis | amazing | 20:35 |
| fijal | pedronis: I'm about to use stringbuilder a bit more in places | 20:35 |
| hpk | fijal: sure, don't want to rush you - just i think that comparing pypy-c and pypy-c-jit makes more sense, is that easier to do? | 20:36 |
| Alex_Gaynor | fijal: I'll work on a patch for perf.py to run multiple interpretters | 20:37 |
| hpk | html5lib is a high contender to flip from slower to faster :) | 20:38 |
| fijal | hpk: as of now, it requires further fiddling in places which I don't like | 20:38 |
| fijal | hpk: I would like to have it nicely on one graph, however, I don't feel like doing it "right" as of now | 20:38 |
| fijal | Alex_Gaynor: that would be awesome | 20:38 |
| hpk | apart from ai is meteor also using generators a lot? | 20:39 |
| pedronis | well ai is using tuple(genexp) which is even worse | 20:40 |
| kenaan | 03hpk 10r7113314 06D(pypy/testresult/): remove very old unused dir ... | 20:43 |
| gutworth | why does fixedview() copy what ever is returned from unpackiterable? | 20:43 |
| hpk | where are the benchmarks actually? | 20:44 |
| fijal | hpk: plotting or running | 20:44 |
| fijal | ? | 20:44 |
| hpk | running, the code | 20:44 |
| fijal | hpk: http://codespeak.net/svn/pypy/benchmarks/ | 20:44 |
| fijal | gutworth: because of resizable/unresizable list | 20:44 |
| fijal | we don't have a cast between those | 20:45 |
| fijal | the only way is to copy a list | 20:45 |
| gutworth | oh right | 20:45 |
| fijal | I know it's a bit stupid :-/ | 20:45 |
| fijal | however the model is as it is right now | 20:45 |
| gutworth | since unpack iterable already copies :( | 20:46 |
| pedronis | not always | 20:46 |
| fijal | yeah | 20:46 |
| fijal | but you don't know if it copied or not | 20:46 |
| fijal | pedronis: unpackiterable always copies I think | 20:46 |
| pedronis | but fixedview has shortcuts no | 20:47 |
| pedronis | in the std space | 20:47 |
| fijal | pedronis: yes, but in case you do fixedview on a list | 20:47 |
| fijal | you effectively get two copies | 20:47 |
| fijal | (I think) | 20:47 |
| pedronis | no | 20:48 |
| pedronis | because there's a shortcut | 20:48 |
| pedronis | so you get only one | 20:48 |
| pedronis | just wondering which fixedview gutworth is starting at | 20:48 |
| fijal | pedronis: ok | 20:48 |
| fijal | pedronis: but in case you have something else than a list, you get two copies | 20:48 |
| fijal | (say dict or set or something) | 20:49 |
| fijal | well, in fact we should have a cast from resizable -> unresizable | 20:49 |
| fijal | and the other way around | 20:49 |
| fijal | which would be used here | 20:49 |
| pedronis | you mean an explict op | 20:50 |
| pedronis | ? | 20:50 |
| fijal | yes | 20:50 |
| fijal | which would have a trivial rtyping | 20:51 |
| pedronis | ? | 20:51 |
| fijal | one would simply dereference pointer | 20:51 |
| fijal | the other would allocate a small wrapper around | 20:51 |
| fijal | cast_resizable_to_non_resizable(listobj) | 20:51 |
| pedronis | well is not really a cast | 20:51 |
| fijal | no | 20:51 |
| fijal | but there are places which could use that | 20:52 |
| fijal | gutworth: lists in rpython are a mess, unfortunately | 20:53 |
| gutworth | :P | 20:53 |
| pedronis | also I'm confused | 20:54 |
| pedronis | there is over allocation | 20:54 |
| pedronis | so you cannot simply read out the fixed list | 20:54 |
| fijal | bah | 20:54 |
| fijal | indeed | 20:54 |
| fijal | ok, so copying is the only way it seems | 20:55 |
| nsf | omg, just ported my hackerish C declaration parser (for documentation system) to pypy.. uses pygments and ply: http://jiss.convex.ru/cdecl.pypy (there is also .py version, uses CPython, see Version string on the page) | 20:55 |
| nsf | it works! :) | 20:55 |
| nsf | 1.1.0 a bit slow though | 20:55 |
| fijal | nsf: well, use svn trunk | 20:56 |
| fijal | pypy 1.1.0 does not contain the jit | 20:56 |
| gutworth | at least we can congratulate ourselves for having good gcs :) | 20:57 |
| fijal | gutworth: you mean because we copy stuff a bit all over the place? | 20:57 |
| nsf | fijal: yep, I know that.. the problem is - I have 1gb of ram only :D so.. I ask friend to build pypy for me, when 1.2 will come out I'll ask him again :D | 20:57 |
| gutworth | yes | 20:57 |
| fijal | heh | 20:58 |
| fijal | gutworth: a bit, yes :) | 20:58 |
| pedronis | we lose more when things are too big or pressure tenures stuff | 20:59 |
| kenaan | 03fijal 10r7113414 07M(pypy/trunk/pypy/objspace/std/stringobject.py): Use stringbuilder for string join ... | 21:03 |
| Alex_Gaynor | fijal: so can I expect django templates to magically get faster with your latest commit :) | 21:04 |
| fijal | I don't know | 21:04 |
| fijal | I'll kick the buildbot | 21:04 |
| Alex_Gaynor | I'll start work on perf.py now | 21:04 |
| Action: Alex_Gaynor is supposed to be sprinting on django | 21:05 | |
| pedronis | fijal: did you see that our app test (without jit) segfaulted last time | 21:05 |
| fijal | pedronis: nope | 21:05 |
| pedronis | unhappy | 21:05 |
| fijal | does not look too good | 21:05 |
| pedronis | ctypes maybe | 21:06 |
| fijal | amaury did ctypes work | 21:07 |
| pedronis | yes | 21:07 |
| pedronis | it's ctypes tests that died | 21:07 |
| fijal | bummer | 21:07 |
| hpk | Alex_Gaynor: you are, indirectly, aren't you? :) | 21:13 |
| Alex_Gaynor | hpk: haha, "I'm making all of your projects faster... 2 years from now" | 21:14 |
| hpk | exactly :) | 21:14 |
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| pedronis | that's 2012, we wil have jetpacks (maybe not) | 21:20 |
| Alex_Gaynor | Djang on Jetpacks? I'd +1 that | 21:21 |
| gutworth | grrr. another place attribute lookup is duplicated... | 21:23 |
| fijal | Alex_Gaynor: django is easy to make faster | 21:23 |
| froosch | code duplication might be for redundancy purposes | 21:24 |
| pedronis | fijal: ? | 21:25 |
| fijal | pedronis: as of django developer | 21:25 |
| fijal | not as of VM developer | 21:25 |
| pedronis | well we are speeding up the benchmark "django" whatever that means | 21:28 |
| fijal | it's not 'django' | 21:29 |
| fijal | at all | 21:29 |
| fijal | although it gives good publicity | 21:29 |
| fijal | should be named "cheetah" | 21:29 |
| pedronis | deceptive marketing, we are evil or what | 21:29 |
| hpk | froosch: you mean like for fail-over? :) | 21:32 |
| magcius | fijal, stringbuilder? | 21:36 |
| fijal | magcius: ? | 21:36 |
| fijal | magcius: I would appreciate if you use longer sentences, thanks | 21:36 |
| magcius | fijal, is that a PyPy thing, or is it a C/CLI/JVM thing? | 21:36 |
| fijal | it exists in both cases | 21:36 |
| kenaan | 03benjamin 10r7113514 pypy/trunk/pypy/objspace/std 07M(test_typeobject.py typeobject.py): fix type.__getattr__ to only respect data descriptors if they have __get__ ... | 21:39 |
| kenaan | 03benjamin 10r7113614 07M(pypy/trunk/pypy/objspace/std/objspace.py): kill unused import ... | 21:40 |
| Alex_Gaynor | fijal: I have it sort of working: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/174708/ | 21:48 |
| fijal | Alex_Gaynor: honestly, I'm not the one responsible for this code, can you make it so it's pushed upstream? | 21:48 |
| Alex_Gaynor | fijal: absolutely, as you can see from the output it's not quite ready, but it's almost there. I'm going to take a break and then work some more | 21:49 |
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| Action: pedronis off | 22:08 | |
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| hpk | fijal: i think for pycon and VM panel purposes comparing to US will be of major interest | 22:41 |
| Alex_Gaynor | there isn't a VM panel at pycon this year I though? | 22:43 |
| Alex_Gaynor | just the plenary sessions | 22:43 |
| fijal | VM meeting | 22:43 |
| Alex_Gaynor | ah no VM meeting for me, just the language summit | 22:44 |
| hpk | right, "summit" is the official name i think | 22:46 |
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| hpk | speaking of the devil, here the master of the summit comes :) hi michael :) | 22:48 |
| kenaan | 03benjamin 10r7113914 07M(pypy/trunk/pypy/objspace/std/objspace.py): rewrite to clarify and avoid doing unneeded lookups ... | 22:48 |
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| Nick change: voidspace -> fuzzyman | 22:48 | |
| Action: hpk is tensed to see when/if html5lib will cross the barrier in http://buildbot.pypy.org/plotsummary.html | 22:55 | |
| fijal | rietveld is a lot about tracing | 22:59 |
| Alex_Gaynor | fijal: ugh, I still can't find the rietveld template file | 23:00 |
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| hpk | partly fitting, i'd say: http://www.indiangeek.net/programmer-competency-matrix/ | 23:13 |
| hpk | mostly even, i don't agree to the code organisation parts | 23:16 |
| fijal | hpk: heh. fibonacci heaps is a data structure that is so tedious to implement that noone uses it | 23:22 |
| fijal | (it has a high constant as well, due to complexity) | 23:22 |
| hpk | heh | 23:23 |
| Action: gutworth wonders if there are O(1) programmers | 23:24 | |
| hpk | i guess the matrix could be tuned/extended a bit to reflect open source environments a bit more | 23:24 |
| fijal | but real wtf is years of professional experience | 23:24 |
| xorAxAx | well, you cant excel in all categories, fijal :) | 23:25 |
| hpk | :) | 23:25 |
| fijal | xorAxAx: :) | 23:26 |
| nsf | O(1) is someone who predicts future I guess | 23:26 |
| nsf | :\ | 23:26 |
| fijal | xorAxAx: I guess I'm "limited to primary IDE" :-) | 23:26 |
| xorAxAx | vesta is a DVCS with a lot of O(1) operations | 23:26 |
| hpk | "Good knowledge of editors, debuggers, IDEs, open source alternatives" - um - open source alternatives? - this is what i mean with "could be adjusted a bit" :) | 23:28 |
| xorAxAx | you mean "good knowledge of FOSS editors, debuggers, ... and closed source alternatives"? :) | 23:29 |
| fijal | xorAxAx: did you do stuff with beamer/other latex? | 23:29 |
| fijal | like advanced stuff :) | 23:29 |
| hpk | o(2) at least? | 23:29 |
| xorAxAx | fijal: yes, i used beamer, tikz and such advanced stuff | 23:30 |
| xorAxAx | and i had my first OOo driven presentation a few weeks ago. i was severely disappointed and will use beamer again | 23:30 |
| hpk | xorAxAx: or "knowledge of common editors, debuggers, ... and closed source alternatives if applicable" or so | 23:30 |
| fijal | OOo driven? | 23:30 |
| xorAxAx | openoffice | 23:30 |
| xorAxAx | .org | 23:30 |
| fijal | ok | 23:30 |
| fijal | I'm trying to make a timeline | 23:31 |
| fijal | a beamer style which will include a timeline, that is | 23:31 |
| hpk | you are really taking these preps the o(3) way it seems | 23:31 |
| xorAxAx | ah | 23:31 |
| xorAxAx | fijal: that sounds like advanced hackery indeed. did you read the chapters about beamer styles and relevant parts of the tikz docs already? | 23:32 |
| fijal | xorAxAx: nope | 23:32 |
| fijal | hpk: ? | 23:32 |
| fijal | what is o(3)? | 23:32 |
| ebo^ | the same es o(1) ? | 23:33 |
| xorAxAx | lim x->oo f(x) / 3 =0 | 23:33 |
| hpk | jaja, level-3 o(logn) | 23:34 |
| fijal | xorAxAx: I was sort of expecting to avoid reading advanced documentation :-) | 23:34 |
| fijal | seems it's not feasible | 23:34 |
| Action: hpk hurries to prepare his tutorial, finally | 23:34 | |
| xorAxAx | fijal: i guess you need to understand a lot of (la)tex and tikz to get a nice result | 23:35 |
| fijal | I know quite some latex | 23:35 |
| fijal | hpk: do you happen to have py logo and merlinux logo at better resolution? | 23:50 |
| hpk | really logn | 23:51 |
| fijal | go away :) | 23:51 |
| fijal | I did not ask for vector version | 23:51 |
| fijal | mind you | 23:51 |
| hpk | hum, i need to look | 23:51 |
| hpk | take a look at the merlinux share/image folder, it contains a merlinux-fertig.jpg and pypy-logo.tif | 23:53 |
| hpk | i presume you want a pypy logo, not a pylib/py.test one :) | 23:53 |
| --- Sun Feb 7 2010 | 00:00 | |
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