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| Ademan | can global dicts be modified? | 05:10 |
|---|---|---|
| Ademan | like adding keys and such? | 05:10 |
| gutworth | in rpython? | 05:10 |
| Ademan | yeah | 05:10 |
| gutworth | no | 05:11 |
| Ademan | i know that globals are constant, but i don't know if that makes them immutable as well | 05:11 |
| Ademan | ah | 05:11 |
| gutworth | only global instances can be changed | 05:11 |
| Ademan | so if i wanted to have a mutable global dictionary i need to make a class that holds the data? | 05:11 |
| Ademan | also... generators aren't rpython right? | 05:12 |
| gutworth | no | 05:12 |
| gutworth | and yes | 05:12 |
| gutworth | [switch] | 05:12 |
| Ademan | ah | 05:12 |
| Ademan | :-/ makes this a bit uglier, oh well | 05:13 |
| gutworth | well, globalness is already ugly | 05:13 |
| Ademan | gutworth: can i instantiate rlib.rarithmetic.singlefloat and use it like a normal rpython primitive? | 05:23 |
| gutworth | yes | 05:24 |
| Ademan | ooh, awesome! | 05:29 |
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| Ademan | gutworth: is the staticmethod decorator rpython? | 05:43 |
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| lesshaste | hello all | 12:09 |
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| lesshaste | hi lucian | 12:34 |
| lesshaste | I just tried using pypy on a short python script that calls networkx... it made no difference at all to the run time | 12:35 |
| lesshaste | I am new to this so any tips much appreciated | 12:35 |
| lesshaste | http://pastebin.ca/1726673 is the entire program | 12:36 |
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| ElectronicRU | Ademan: look in your private | 14:06 |
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| ElectronicRU | Ademan: attracting,... | 15:57 |
| Last message repeated 2 time(s). | 16:47 | |
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| MrMeanie | Is the logical constraint solver still a part of PyPy? | 17:47 |
| ElectronicRU | From where could you advise me to start writing interpreter for small language? | 17:49 |
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| lesshaste | hi | 18:14 |
| lesshaste | I have some simple code that appears quite a bit slowed in pypy than standard python | 18:15 |
| lesshaste | is there somewhere I can post it? | 18:15 |
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| lucian | lesshaste: put it on a pastebin and ask someone with experience (fijal,arigato,etc.) | 18:23 |
| lucian | lesshaste: about what you asked me yesterday, i'm as newbie as you are | 18:23 |
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| lac_ | MrMeanie: I don't think anybody has been maintaining that, so maybe it works, but probably it doesn't. | 18:46 |
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| jewel_ | ElectronicRU, I would advise you try a small lisp interpreter, if you're interested in lisp or scheme | 18:57 |
| ElectronicRU | To explore its code? | 18:58 |
| ElectronicRU | I need certain lang. | 18:58 |
| ElectronicRU | And start point to explore. | 18:58 |
| kenaan | 03arigo 10r7027114 07M(pypy/trunk/pypy/jit/metainterp/optimizeopt.py): is_always_pure() is a subset of has_no_side_effect(). ... | 19:00 |
| jewel_ | ElectronicRU, you can try this: http://www.paulgraham.com/rootsoflisp.html | 19:00 |
| ElectronicRU | I. Need. Small. Language. Interpreter. Example. In. RPython. I. Need. No. Scheme. | 19:01 |
| arigato | pypy/jit/tl/tl*.py ? | 19:02 |
| arigato | these are such examples, designed for testing the jit generator but perfectly readable as small examples of interpreters | 19:03 |
| Trundle | Is barla an awful example for an interpreter? | 19:06 |
| Action: arigato doesn't know about barla | 19:07 | |
| Trundle | arigato: That small language I wrote some time ago. | 19:08 |
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| lesshaste | lucian: ok thanks | 19:11 |
| Action: lesshaste will be back in a second | 19:12 | |
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| lesshaste | arigato, hi | 19:16 |
| arigato | hi | 19:16 |
| lesshaste | This rather simple piece of code http://pastebin.ca/1726856 seems quite a lot slower using pypy than with standard python | 19:16 |
| lesshaste | assuming that I am testing it right of course | 19:16 |
| lesshaste | i am just putting #!/dir/pypy-trunk/pypy/translator/goal/pypy-c for the pypy test | 19:17 |
| lesshaste | and #!/usr/bin/python for the python one | 19:17 |
| lesshaste | I compiled with --opt=jit | 19:17 |
| arigato | a bit hard to follow without knowing what bidirectional_dijkstra() does, | 19:19 |
| arigato | but I'll keep a copy of the link for later | 19:19 |
| lesshaste | I profiled the python run | 19:19 |
| lesshaste | and half the time is just in the add_edge part it seems | 19:19 |
| lesshaste | how do you profile the pypy run? | 19:20 |
| arigato | the same, I suppose | 19:21 |
| lesshaste | pypy -m cprofile? | 19:21 |
| arigato | should work | 19:21 |
| lesshaste | timings.. python 32 secs, pypy 48 | 19:22 |
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| lesshaste | ok trying it now | 19:23 |
| lesshaste | if there is anything useful I can do to help make it easier to debug do let me know | 19:23 |
| lesshaste | I'll see if I can make an even more minimalist version that shows the timings difference if that helps | 19:24 |
| lesshaste | pypy-c -m cProfile test.py doesn't seem to have output anything meaningful | 19:25 |
| lucian | lesshaste: try profile instead of cProfile | 19:26 |
| lesshaste | lucian, how? Can you give me an example command line? | 19:28 |
| lesshaste | pypy-c -m profile doesn't work | 19:28 |
| lucian | lesshaste: pypy-c -m profile. there's no cProfile for pypy since there's no C modules. it may be aliased | 19:29 |
| lesshaste | join #python | 19:29 |
| lucian | lesshaste: and pypy might not have the -m switch | 19:29 |
| lucian | try import profile | 19:29 |
| lucian | lesshaste: i've got to go | 19:29 |
| arigato | lucian: it does | 19:29 |
| lesshaste | pypy-c -m cProfile works in some sense but -m profile just gives me error messages | 19:29 |
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| lesshaste | arigato, ok.. how about this? http://pastebin.ca/1726863 | 19:35 |
| arigato | as I said, I'll just write it down for later | 19:37 |
| arigato | but thanks anyway | 19:37 |
| lesshaste | no problem. I thought a really small example with the dijkstra part might help | 19:38 |
| lesshaste | without the dijkstra part | 19:38 |
| arigato | yes, thanks | 19:42 |
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| ElectronicRU | Hello, | 20:09 |
| ElectronicRU | I'm reviewing py2.6 features. | 20:09 |
| ElectronicRU | When PyPy is going to migrate to 2.6? | 20:09 |
| ElectronicRU | Next year? | 20:10 |
| ElectronicRU | Or there is no people to do this? | 20:10 |
| ElectronicRU | Or no sense of it? | 20:10 |
| arigato | it's very unclear | 20:10 |
| arigato | "a bit all of the above" is the best answer | 20:10 |
| ElectronicRU | One day we'll need it. Py2.7 comes. | 20:12 |
| ElectronicRU | Or, (secret), project 'll go his own way? With its own improvements? | 20:13 |
| ElectronicRU | Where is 'property' class in objspace.std? | 20:17 |
| arigato | no, we don't want to "improve" the language, we're rather on the general opinion that the Python language is good enough as it is | 20:19 |
| arigato | 'property' is in pypy/module/__builtin__/ | 20:19 |
| ElectronicRU | Not parser. | 20:19 |
| ElectronicRU | For ex. unicode-byte dilemma appears in py2.6 | 20:20 |
| ElectronicRU | Thanks for location. | 20:20 |
| ElectronicRU | Could I commit change adds prop.getter/setter decorators? | 20:20 |
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| arigato | obviously, everyone has their favorite "Python is great but if only *that* were improved". Please go discuss it elsewhere, though :-) | 20:20 |
| ElectronicRU | So could I? | 20:22 |
| arigato | ElectronicRU: unlikely -- if you mean adding properties to the source code of pypy, then no because we try to some extent to remain 2.3-compatible | 20:22 |
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| arigato | and if you mean adding a new functionality to the Python language, then no, definitely not | 20:22 |
| ElectronicRU | http://pastebin.com/f3ea53d7c | 20:23 |
| ElectronicRU | Better than words. | 20:23 |
| ElectronicRU | This 'll not break compatibility. | 20:23 |
| arigato | yup, looks nice. but as I said, no, not interested at all | 20:23 |
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| arigato | but go to #python or python-dev and discuss it there if you feel like | 20:24 |
| Alex_Gaynor | arigato: that feature is already in py2.6 | 20:24 |
| ElectronicRU | arigato: I couldn't understand you. | 20:24 |
| ElectronicRU | I'm asking for adding *exisiting* functionality in PyPy. | 20:24 |
| arigato | Alex_Gaynor: ah ha, thanks for the pointer | 20:24 |
| ElectronicRU | This snippet is from ``What's New in Python 2.6'' document. | 20:25 |
| arigato | ElectronicRU: I see | 20:25 |
| ElectronicRU | So may I? | 20:25 |
| arigato | I don't know, we don't have a policy set up yet | 20:25 |
| arigato | the point is that if we say we support Python 2.5, and you add some 2.6-only feature, then it's also annoying | 20:26 |
| Alex_Gaynor | so perhaps a branch for 2.6 support makes sense | 20:26 |
| arigato | yes | 20:26 |
| Alex_Gaynor | I suppose it would have to merge trunk in regularly to be helpful | 20:26 |
| ElectronicRU | Ok, how do I make a branch if I have not whole repo checked out? | 20:27 |
| arigato | you can use svn cp http://... http://... | 20:27 |
| ElectronicRU | svn+ssh://, I think. | 20:27 |
| arigato | yes, depending on your preference | 20:28 |
| ElectronicRU | svn cp svn+ssh://.../pypy/trunk svn+ssh://../pypy/branch/2.6ish -- so? | 20:28 |
| arigato | yes | 20:28 |
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| kenaan | 03electronicru 10r7027214 05A(pypy/branch/2.6ish/): Adding branch for Python 2.6 support. ... | 20:31 |
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| ElectronicRU | Job done! | 20:34 |
| arigato | :-) | 20:37 |
| lesshaste | wow that was quick :) | 20:37 |
| ElectronicRU | It is checking out now. Svn is so smart that it just passed 'cp' to server, without transfering files. | 20:38 |
| gutworth_ | how would it transferr files? | 20:38 |
| Nick change: gutworth_ -> gutworth | 20:38 | |
| ElectronicRU | To and from my computer :) | 20:39 |
| ElectronicRU | What a smart things get!.. | 20:41 |
| gutworth | you obviously haven't merged many svn branches | 20:41 |
| ElectronicRU | What a smart have things became! | 20:41 |
| ElectronicRU | gutworth: I know how svn works. I know that it'll never transfer files. | 20:42 |
| ElectronicRU | Truly. | 20:42 |
| Alex_Gaynor | OTOH if you want to do an svn diff it hits the server *how many* times ;) | 20:42 |
| gutworth | depends on whether it's svn+ssh or not | 20:42 |
| kenaan | 03arigo 10r7027314 pypy/branch/jit-delayed-write/pypy/jit/metainterp 07M(effectinfo.py optimizeopt.py test_effectinfo.py test_optimizefindnode.py test_optimizeopt.py): Get optimizeopt.py to delay some writes. All tests pass ... | 20:42 |
| ElectronicRU | Oh, btw, what's the history of using svn for pypy? | 20:43 |
| gutworth | forever | 20:43 |
| arigato | yes, we have been using it since forever | 20:44 |
| ElectronicRU | Let's ask so: why is svn used for pypy? | 20:44 |
| gutworth | because it works well enough | 20:44 |
| arigato | and because the other vcs systems did not work well enough when we started pypy | 20:44 |
| gutworth | and it's a billion times better than nothing | 20:44 |
| arigato | or than cvs :-) | 20:45 |
| gutworth | :) | 20:45 |
| ElectronicRU | Yes, than cvs - definitely! :) | 20:46 |
| ElectronicRU | But I heard that Python have switched to bzr or somewhat, is it true? | 20:47 |
| gutworth | we're in the agonizing process of switching to hg | 20:47 |
| lesshaste | is git suitable? | 20:48 |
| gutworth | lots of us hate git | 20:48 |
| gutworth | like me :) | 20:48 |
| lesshaste | grumpy g.. :) | 20:48 |
| gutworth | (btw, by "we" I'm referring to cpython) | 20:48 |
| Action: Ademan snarks | 20:49 | |
| Ademan | morning, merry christmas | 20:49 |
| lesshaste | gutworth, by the way... did you see the failure of my first pypy test? | 20:49 |
| ElectronicRU | It will be good test platform too :). | 20:49 |
| gutworth | besides, how bad would it look if we passed up vcs written in python for a c one? | 20:49 |
| gutworth | lesshaste: I don't think so | 20:49 |
| lesshaste | gutworth, http://pastebin.ca/1726863 is quite a lot slower in pypy than in normal python | 20:50 |
| lesshaste | about 11/8 slower | 20:50 |
| Ademan | it's known to happen... | 20:50 |
| gutworth | hard to say what's slower with such a large example | 20:50 |
| gutworth | and 11/8 is about the usual | 20:50 |
| lesshaste | Ademan, yes but it's the only thing I have ever tested :) | 20:50 |
| ElectronicRU | Let's write a new one -- in rpython&pypy! :) | 20:50 |
| lesshaste | gutworth, do you mean it's a large example of code? | 20:51 |
| Ademan | svn isn't written in python... | 20:51 |
| ElectronicRU | Ademan, hello. | 20:51 |
| gutworth | lesshaste: it involves external libraries etc | 20:51 |
| ElectronicRU | But mercurial is. | 20:51 |
| Ademan | hey ElectronicRU | 20:51 |
| lesshaste | gutworth, ah yes there is one... let me find the source for the line that takes the time | 20:52 |
| Ademan | my understanding is/was we're sticking with svn | 20:52 |
| ElectronicRU | Ademan, I have posted something about dot product in private... | 20:52 |
| Ademan | ElectronicRU: yeah i saw that, good job with that | 20:53 |
| ElectronicRU | It was two hours of my time and four paper sheets. | 20:53 |
| Ademan | there's alot of celebrating going on i didn't get much done last night... hopefully this morning... | 20:54 |
| Ademan | although it's getting close | 20:54 |
| Ademan | and it supports 32 bit floats | 20:54 |
| lesshaste | gutworth, well it's the add_edge line that takes all the time as far as I can tell.. actually I couldn't see how to profile the pypy run but that's what takes the time in normal python | 20:54 |
| lesshaste | gutworth, do you know how to profile a pypy execution? | 20:54 |
| gutworth | you'd have to see what the Graph.add_edge method does | 20:55 |
| gutworth | the profile module should work | 20:55 |
| lesshaste | pypy-c -m profile test.py just returns an error message | 20:55 |
| ElectronicRU | Or, it's catholic Christmas today! Happy Christmas! | 20:56 |
| gutworth | grumble, grubmle | 20:56 |
| lesshaste | -m cProfile at least runs | 20:56 |
| lesshaste | :) | 20:56 |
| Action: lesshaste is searching the networkx source code | 20:56 | |
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| lesshaste | gutworth, http://www.pastebin.ca/1726928 | 20:59 |
| lesshaste | http://www.pastebin.ca/1726928 is the whole graph.py file | 21:00 |
| lesshaste | grr http://pastebin.com/f2a334c43 I mean | 21:00 |
| lesshaste | the first one is just add_edge | 21:00 |
| Nick change: ElectronicRU -> ElectronicRU[awa | 21:01 | |
| lesshaste | gutworth, http://pastebin.ca/1726930 is the generator for the graph | 21:02 |
| lesshaste | it's not much code in the end | 21:02 |
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| Ademan | is @staticmethod rpython? | 21:05 |
| gutworth | yes | 21:06 |
| Ademan | awesome | 21:06 |
| lesshaste | gutworth, is this just the wrong way to be reporting this? | 21:06 |
| lesshaste | should I be posting to a group or somesuch? | 21:06 |
| gutworth | well, a line or so which is much slower in pypy than cpython is better | 21:07 |
| lesshaste | you mean a single line of python that isn't calling something? | 21:07 |
| gutworth | right | 21:08 |
| gutworth | or excerpt | 21:08 |
| Ademan | try and narrow it down to the offending code | 21:08 |
| lesshaste | Ademan, ok I did my best :) It's the add_edge function | 21:08 |
| lesshaste | which I pasted above | 21:08 |
| lesshaste | it's only half a dozen lines | 21:09 |
| gutworth | with at least 6 calls :) | 21:09 |
| lesshaste | but I see those might be annoying :) | 21:09 |
| lesshaste | this is why I am trying to profile! | 21:09 |
| lesshaste | any help much appreciated | 21:09 |
| lesshaste | When I do python -m profile ftnn.py I get http://www.pastebin.ca/1726936 any idea why it fails? | 21:15 |
| Ademan | lesshaste: i certainly don't | 21:24 |
| lesshaste | Ademan, ok thanks | 21:25 |
| Ademan | gutworth might though | 21:25 |
| lesshaste | gutworth is a good name of christmas gorging :) | 21:26 |
| lesshaste | s/of/for | 21:26 |
| lesshaste | is profile preferable to cProfile in any case? | 21:27 |
| Ademan | gutworth: how is the structure of an rpython class determined? | 21:28 |
| Ademan | gutworth: I want to do something like this: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/159643/ is this rpython? | 21:30 |
| Ademan | and if i had a no-op construction helper, would it be optimized out? (or do you think i could at least trust GCC to optimize it out?) | 21:31 |
| lesshaste | it looks like a bug in the profiler to me | 21:33 |
| lesshaste | where best to report such a thing? | 21:34 |
| Ademan | is it our implementation of the profiler? | 21:34 |
| lesshaste | no sorry | 21:36 |
| lesshaste | it seems to be a general python profile module failure | 21:36 |
| lesshaste | I found the bug tracker in any case | 21:36 |
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| lesshaste | Ademan, well.. it works fine in python2.5 but not 2.6 | 21:39 |
| lesshaste | there's a thing | 21:39 |
| Ademan | lesshaste: interesting... | 21:39 |
| lesshaste | Ademan, pypy-c -m profile ftnn.py fails with a different error | 21:40 |
| lesshaste | so much fun | 21:40 |
| lesshaste | http://pastebin.ca/1726961 is the pypy profile failure | 21:41 |
| Ademan | lesshaste: haha, alwas a pleasure... | 21:44 |
| Ademan | wow, that's an interpreter error... | 21:44 |
| lesshaste | Ademan, so it seems the first thing is a bug in python profile.. which was introduced in january 2008!! http://svn.python.org/view/python/trunk/Lib/pstats.py?r1=60149&r2=60148&pathrev=60149 | 21:45 |
| lesshaste | I worry about python sometimes | 21:45 |
| lesshaste | all I did was try to profile one script! | 21:45 |
| lesshaste | Ademan, can I leave the interpreter error with you? I should really go | 21:46 |
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| kenaan | 03arigo 10r7027414 pypy/branch/jit-delayed-write/pypy/jit/metainterp 07M(optimizeopt.py test_optimizeopt.py): Step 1: force lazy fields on all guards. ... | 22:23 |
| kenaan | 03arigo 10r7027514 pypy/branch/jit-delayed-write/pypy/jit/metainterp 07M(optimizeopt.py test_optimizeopt.py): force_all_lazy_setfields_of_nonvirtuals(). ... | 22:29 |
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| Ademan | sorry lesshaste | 22:52 |
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| gutworth | Ademan: um, well, FooType will be None in that case :) | 23:16 |
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