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| fijal | mwhudson: why you've got so distinct way of writing comments that I can usually guess? | 03:18 |
|---|---|---|
| mwhudson | fijal: well, i am a native english speaker | 03:18 |
| mwhudson | and i'm probably a bit more sarcastic than most people in comments | 03:19 |
| fijal | can you recognize native/non-native from a 2-line comment? | 03:19 |
| mwhudson | dunno | 03:19 |
| fijal | I think it depends on language usage | 03:20 |
| fijal | indeed, you use words I would never think of | 03:20 |
| fijal | # XXX because we call inputconst already in replace_malloc, we can't | 03:20 |
| fijal | # modify the instance, we have to modify the 'rtyped instance' | 03:20 |
| fijal | # instead. horrors. is there a better way? | 03:20 |
| fijal | the distinctive part here is "horrors" | 03:20 |
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| CIA-3 | 03arigo 07async-del * r56083 10pypy/: | 09:47 |
| CIA-3 | issue371 in-progress | 09:47 |
| CIA-3 | A branch in which to avoid having app-level __del__() methods | 09:47 |
| CIA-3 | called from random places. | 09:47 |
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| CIA-3 | 03arigo 07roundup * 10#371/__del__ called from random places: [chatting] Added: pypy/branch/async-del/ - copied from r56082, pypy/dist/ Log: issue371 in-progress A branch in which to avoid having ap ... | 09:48 |
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| CIA-3 | 03arigo 07async-del * r56084 10pypy/pypy/objspace/std/test/test_listobject.py: A test that shows what all this is about. | 10:26 |
| CIA-3 | 03arigo 07async-del * r56085 10pypy/pypy/ (5 files in 3 dirs): Attempting to fix the issue by delaying calls to app-level dels. | 10:27 |
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| cfbolz | hi! | 11:08 |
| antocuni | hi carl! | 11:09 |
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| xorAxAx | java emu at ~20% of the real time speed: http://www-jpc.physics.ox.ac.uk/ | 11:38 |
| xorAxAx | s/java/& x86/ | 11:38 |
| cfbolz | pedronis: hi! | 11:39 |
| pedronis | cfbolz: hi | 11:39 |
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| jewel_ | xorAxAx, some people are just crazy | 12:15 |
| CIA-3 | 03arigo 07async-del * r56086 10pypy/pypy/interpreter/executioncontext.py: Duh. | 12:24 |
| cfbolz | jewel_: it's actually useful, no? | 12:25 |
| jewel_ | more than a vmware-type product? | 12:26 |
| jewel_ | and to implement it in java? | 12:26 |
| cfbolz | jewel_: easier to understand than obscure C, usually | 12:28 |
| jewel_ | perhaps, but being able to produce native code directly would be a big win | 12:31 |
| cfbolz | jewel_: hotspot does that for you :-) | 12:32 |
| jewel_ | i willing to bet that there is some pretty obscure java code in there | 12:32 |
| jewel_ | yes, but hotspot has a poor interface as a native code generator | 12:33 |
| cfbolz | jewel_: I don't think they are using that | 12:33 |
| jewel_ | i mean, it has no interface | 12:33 |
| cfbolz | probably there is obscure java, but there performance isn't too shabby | 12:33 |
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| jewel_ | i still think it's crazy, think about all the hardware you have to emulate | 12:39 |
| jewel_ | and what it takes to run an OS like windows or a graphical linux | 12:39 |
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| cfbolz | jewel_: more crazy than a gameboy interpreter in python? :-) | 13:10 |
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| antocuni | cfbolz: what's the best way to make sure that the rainbow interp has the opcode "red_same_as" built in? | 13:57 |
| cfbolz | no clue :-) | 13:59 |
| antocuni | ok :-) | 13:59 |
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| djc | wow, good news about the funding | 14:29 |
| xorAxAx | http://www.reddit.com/info/6p2kz/comments | 14:31 |
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| radix | what! | 14:47 |
| radix | hooray google money | 14:48 |
| radix | so... | 14:48 |
| radix | It's interesting that you guys put your funding money into the travel for sprints | 14:48 |
| radix | the Twisted project has decided to avoid doing that because it seems we can get a lot more value out of funding one person to work more consistently | 14:49 |
| radix | like, depending on where you're flying from, a couple of flights for a few days can easily add up to a month of work for one person | 14:49 |
| radix | the cost of, rather | 14:50 |
| radix | although I guess if most of the funding is intra-european it's not so expensive | 14:50 |
| xorAxAx | yeah, this is not like ibm in the 80's :) | 14:51 |
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| bigdo1 | congratulations on the funding, both the money and support from google are a very for pypy. | 15:35 |
| bigdo1 | the google spotlight may add some other oppertunites for pypy | 15:35 |
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| jacob22 | radix: We are not looking at the exact lines of code that a piece of funding gives us, we are more concerned with what keeps the spirit of the project alive and what brings us forward in the long term. | 15:56 |
| jacob22 | radix: PyPy still doesn't have users which means that keeping the vision alive and keeping pople working towards a specific goal is a major concern. For this, it is important for the members of the project to actually meet, discuss PyPy and go skiing and drinking beer together. | 15:58 |
| exarkun | yaaay skiing beer | 15:59 |
| exarkun | I mean vision | 15:59 |
| jacob22 | The origins of PyPy are actually from a beer session after the first EuroPython. | 16:00 |
| DanielHolth | The effects of beer on vision are well documented. | 16:00 |
| djc | For the effects of vision on beer, much less so. | 16:00 |
| djc | Although PyPy seems to do well in that department. | 16:00 |
| jacob22 | In any case, the Google funding mostly goes to a very few individuals, and we want to support the work of more people. Sprint funding is a good way to do so. | 16:02 |
| jacob22 | And travelling by budget airlines in Europe is remarkably cheap. You have to put up with being treated as cattle by some airlines, but the ticket often costs less than going to the cinema. | 16:05 |
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| DanielHolth | jacob22, How does the cinema treat you? | 16:25 |
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| CIA-3 | 03arigo 07async-del * r56088 10pypy/pypy/ (6 files in 4 dirs): (log message trimmed) | 17:13 |
| CIA-3 | Intermediate check-in. Refactoring the "periodic actions" approach. | 17:13 |
| CIA-3 | This should allow signals and app-level destructors to be handled | 17:13 |
| CIA-3 | promptly, i.e. before the next opcode is run (so far they have to wait | 17:13 |
| CIA-3 | for up to sys.checkinterval opcodes). | 17:13 |
| CIA-3 | The 2nd goal is to decrease the overhead in the fast path of | 17:13 |
| CIA-3 | executioncontext.bytecode_trace() by making the checks here simpler. It | 17:13 |
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| Action: pedronis -> home | 17:45 | |
| pedronis | see you | 17:45 |
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| CIA-3 | 03fijal * r56089 10extradoc/sprintinfo/post-ep2008/people.txt: my dates | 18:04 |
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| cfbolz | AntonK: hi! | 18:04 |
| AntonK | evening all | 18:05 |
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| fijal | our select implementation on top of poll is nontrivially broken | 18:15 |
| fijal | http://google-opensource.blogspot.com/2008/06/pypy-progress-python-fast-and-flexible.html | 18:22 |
| xorAxAx | wasnt there an url to syndicate also the comments? | 18:24 |
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| cfbolz | fijal: also here: http://www.reddit.com/info/6p2kz/comments/ | 18:25 |
| fijal | yop | 18:25 |
| Action: fijal has cheaper cinemas than airline tickets in poland | 18:28 | |
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| steinrs | hi there... just a quick question: are you guys happy with LLVM? what kinda of issues have you run into? any glaring bugs? | 18:29 |
| fijal | steinrs: yes, almost all releases had bugs | 18:29 |
| fijal | and we need to stay with HEAD | 18:29 |
| fijal | we don't use it actively these days though | 18:30 |
| steinrs | oh | 18:30 |
| steinrs | thought about using it for a compiler project | 18:30 |
| fijal | note that our use case is fairly extreme | 18:31 |
| fijal | another issue was dependency of llvm-gcc which is pain to build | 18:31 |
| steinrs | right | 18:31 |
| fijal | it'll hopefully change with clang | 18:31 |
| steinrs | is that far along? | 18:31 |
| fijal | no idea | 18:31 |
| fijal | never checked | 18:31 |
| fijal | AntonK: do you know details | 18:31 |
| fijal | ? | 18:31 |
| fijal | steinrs: we're still able to compile to llvm | 18:32 |
| fijal | just our main version is C | 18:32 |
| steinrs | i see | 18:32 |
| AntonK | well | 18:32 |
| AntonK | current status of clang is something like this: | 18:32 |
| AntonK | C parsing (incl. prepocessor) - almosttly done | 18:33 |
| AntonK | sema checks - maybe 60-70% | 18:33 |
| AntonK | codegen - maybe 40%, but some big applications were reported to work | 18:33 |
| AntonK | (afair, even cpython itself) | 18:33 |
| fijal | AntonK: you generate llvm out of it? right? | 18:34 |
| steinrs | ok, i was thinking about just targeting llvm byte code directly | 18:34 |
| cfbolz | fijal: which might change quickly if their backend becomes faster than GCCs :-) | 18:34 |
| steinrs | shouldn't need any gcc/clang dependency | 18:34 |
| AntonK | fijal: yes | 18:34 |
| fijal | cfbolz: right | 18:34 |
| fijal | steinrs: yes, we're not heavily C-based. C has known issues and if llvm becomes faster we can start using mainly this | 18:35 |
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| steinrs | i'm curious - what sets pypy appart from the stock python distribution i'm using? | 18:38 |
| steinrs | is the focus on improving speed? | 18:38 |
| cfbolz | the goals are speed, features, availability | 18:39 |
| fijal | what was the reasoning behind implementing select using poll? | 18:40 |
| cfbolz | fijal: that's a common choice, no? | 18:40 |
| fijal | cfbolz: no | 18:41 |
| fijal | cpython doesn't do that | 18:41 |
| fijal | and that makes no sense since kernel does this anyway | 18:41 |
| fijal | the main problem is that it's buggy | 18:41 |
| cfbolz | fijal: seems extremely old code | 18:42 |
| fijal | yes | 18:42 |
| fijal | is there any reason why it's still like that, or just legacy? | 18:43 |
| cfbolz | probably because nobody fixed it | 18:43 |
| fijal | cause I fear it would be actually faster to reimplement it using select | 18:43 |
| fijal | than to fix it | 18:43 |
| cfbolz | fine, I would guess | 18:44 |
| fijal | it would be faster as a side effect | 18:46 |
| fijal | second thing | 18:46 |
| fijal | I'm about to implement gc.get_referrers | 18:46 |
| fijal | and the question is | 18:47 |
| fijal | when I walk all objects in gc | 18:47 |
| fijal | sorry addresses | 18:47 |
| fijal | how can I cast it to a pointer to instance? | 18:47 |
| fijal | so I can pass it to app-level? | 18:47 |
| antocuni | fijal: cast_adr_to_ptr? | 18:48 |
| antocuni | or something like this | 18:48 |
| fijal | but I need ptr type | 18:50 |
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| josch | OMG YOU GUYS RULE!! :D | 18:51 |
| josch | i just heard the chaos radio express episode about pypy | 18:51 |
| josch | and I'm deeply impressed | 18:51 |
| fijal | antocuni: what ptr type would be for app-level objects? | 18:51 |
| antocuni | uhm... no clue | 18:52 |
| fijal | exactly | 18:52 |
| jacob22 | fijal: I think the implementation of select was done as a stopgap measure, to have any select functionality at all. | 18:52 |
| fijal | jacob22: I simply don't understand why it's not using select | 18:54 |
| fijal | probably because having any external call was a pain these days | 18:54 |
| jacob22 | fijal: Yes, I have a vague memory of someone not knowing how to access select. | 18:55 |
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| antocuni | pypy code swarm: http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=b0cSm1DgCbc | 18:57 |
| xorAxAx | AntonK: clang can do c++? | 18:59 |
| xorAxAx | fijal: i dont think that llvm-gcc is seriously needed anymore | 18:59 |
| xorAxAx | given the current infrastructure | 18:59 |
| xorAxAx | somebody has just to finish the .h cleanup :) | 18:59 |
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| fijal | xorAxAx: no, it is | 19:03 |
| fijal | how else do you compile all accessors? | 19:03 |
| hpk | antocuni: what is this? | 19:03 |
| fijal | antocuni: you can see that we're sprint based :) | 19:03 |
| fijal | hpk: it's a meme you avoid because you don't read news 6 hours a day | 19:03 |
| xorAxAx | fijal: gcc | 19:03 |
| xorAxAx | fijal: like its done currently | 19:03 |
| antocuni | hpk: a visualization of all commits to pypy repo from the beginning until today | 19:04 |
| xorAxAx | i implemented that code :-P | 19:04 |
| antocuni | fijal: it's also nice to see the explosion when the EU funding starts | 19:04 |
| xorAxAx | antocuni: cool, does it have nice music? :) | 19:04 |
| antocuni | xorAxAx: sure, I added it :-) | 19:04 |
| xorAxAx | antocuni: its not sharp :-( | 19:04 |
| AntonK | xorAxAx: not yet | 19:05 |
| xorAxAx | antocuni: probably vimeo et al. allow for higher resolutions | 19:05 |
| AntonK | c++ is really hard and ugly | 19:05 |
| xorAxAx | AntonK: yeah | 19:05 |
| AntonK | it will require 2-3 years more | 19:05 |
| AntonK | :( | 19:05 |
| antocuni | xorAxAx: vimeo makes firefox crashing every time I try to upload it | 19:05 |
| xorAxAx | AntonK: because it sounded like somebody asked you whether clang can be used to compile llvm | 19:05 |
| xorAxAx | antocuni: :-( | 19:05 |
| fijal | antocuni: firefox sucks | 19:05 |
| antocuni | here is the original high quality movie: http://wyvern.cs.uni-duesseldorf.de/~antocuni/pypy.avi | 19:05 |
| cfbolz | antocuni: very cool! | 19:08 |
| xorAxAx | guido! | 19:09 |
| xorAxAx | is visible | 19:09 |
| hpk | wesdorp though, i guess | 19:10 |
| antocuni | hpk: I don't think wesdorp have a nike like "gvanrossum" :-) | 19:10 |
| hpk | guido v. rossum is gvanrossum on codespeak | 19:10 |
| hpk | oh, ok - i thought xorAxAx meant this literally | 19:10 |
| xorAxAx | wow, this non-sprint-phase-inactivity is astonishing :) | 19:11 |
| antocuni | unfortunately after a bit things get too confused due to high activity | 19:11 |
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| antocuni | it's possible to have a higher granularity, but then the video become too long | 19:12 |
| xorAxAx | yeah, some cross artefacts | 19:12 |
| Nick change: wristtone -> eartone | 19:12 | |
| xorAxAx | i guess those are fixeols :) | 19:12 |
| antocuni | or merging of branches | 19:12 |
| xorAxAx | yeah | 19:12 |
| xorAxAx | hmm, too many codec artefacts IMHO | 19:14 |
| fijal | antocuni: is this trunk only or branches? | 19:14 |
| antocuni | fijal: it's dist/ and branch/ | 19:14 |
| fijal | ok | 19:14 |
| fijal | cpython's select is #def messs | 19:14 |
| antocuni | could someone try to upload it on vimeo please? | 19:15 |
| DanielHolth | would it make any sense to compile CPython and run it with lli? | 19:15 |
| fijal | DanielHolth: what is lli? | 19:15 |
| DanielHolth | llvm's interpreter/jit | 19:15 |
| xorAxAx | antocuni: is it probably possible to regenerate it with a nicer codec? | 19:15 |
| xorAxAx | antocuni: that has less artefacts | 19:15 |
| xorAxAx | (and probably more data) | 19:15 |
| fijal | DanielHolth: try | 19:16 |
| antocuni | xorAxAx: artefacts? | 19:16 |
| cfbolz | xorAxAx: yes, especially at the end it seems to get quite bad | 19:16 |
| DanielHolth | worth a shot :-) | 19:16 |
| xorAxAx | antocuni: well, its hard to read the nick names | 19:16 |
| xorAxAx | antocuni: starting from 50% on | 19:16 |
| xorAxAx | very blurred/blocked | 19:16 |
| antocuni | xorAxAx: are you talking about the video on wyvern? | 19:16 |
| antocuni | ah, right | 19:17 |
| exarkun | is wyvern still a super fast somethingsomething? | 19:17 |
| xorAxAx | yes, that one | 19:17 |
| cfbolz | DanielHolth: what would be use case be? | 19:17 |
| antocuni | ok, I've also a higher quality version which is 40 MB | 19:17 |
| Action: antocuni uploads | 19:17 | |
| fijal | now the cool question is why select module tests hang on my machine | 19:17 |
| fijal | exarkun: superfast? | 19:18 |
| DanielHolth | Perhaps llvm would be able to apply different optimizations. | 19:18 |
| exarkun | fijal: yeasuperfast! | 19:18 |
| cfbolz | exarkun: fast enough | 19:18 |
| exarkun | have you guys seen those videos | 19:19 |
| exarkun | about commit history | 19:19 |
| exarkun | code_swarm | 19:19 |
| fijal | exarkun: use bigdog's machine, it's super fast | 19:19 |
| cfbolz | exarkun: isn't that what anto pasted above? | 19:19 |
| exarkun | fijal: oh, good point. | 19:19 |
| antocuni | yes, it is | 19:19 |
| exarkun | Oh. I missed that, just got back from lunch. :) | 19:20 |
| fijal | exarkun: I'll reimplement select using select, I have enough | 19:20 |
| exarkun | fijal: have enough what? | 19:20 |
| antocuni | exarkun: very timely though :-) | 19:20 |
| fijal | trying to track what's broken | 19:20 |
| exarkun | ah | 19:20 |
| pedronis | fijal: I think it was implemented using poll, because of the helper macros that are needed to use select | 19:21 |
| pedronis | FD_SET etc are typically macros | 19:21 |
| fijal | pedronis: that doesn't bother us any more | 19:22 |
| pedronis | well you asked why, that's the answer | 19:23 |
| fijal | right | 19:23 |
| fijal | good to know | 19:23 |
| fijal | my question is "are there any still valid reasons" | 19:23 |
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| antocuni | http://wyvern.cs.uni-duesseldorf.de/~antocuni/pypy.avi | 19:37 |
| antocuni | higher quality than before | 19:38 |
| DanielHolth | What generates those statistics? | 19:39 |
| DanielHolth | What program makes the animation from the statistics? | 19:39 |
| antocuni | DanielHolth: http://vis.cs.ucdavis.edu/~ogawa/codeswarm/ | 19:40 |
| xorAxAx | umm, village people? | 19:42 |
| xorAxAx | antocuni: does it fit to pypy's commit, do you think? :) | 19:43 |
| xorAxAx | +s | 19:43 |
| antocuni | uh? | 19:43 |
| xorAxAx | its playing village people - YMCA at the end | 19:44 |
| xorAxAx | after the dire straits | 19:44 |
| antocuni | yes, I know :-). But why do you think fits? | 19:45 |
| xorAxAx | i want to know why it would fit :) | 19:46 |
| antocuni | ah | 19:46 |
| xorAxAx | "Taking the song at face value, its lyrics extol the virtues of the Young Men's Christian Association." | 19:46 |
| antocuni | well, I choose the songs mostly randomly | 19:46 |
| xorAxAx | :) | 19:46 |
| Action: antocuni afk | 19:46 | |
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| CIA-3 | 03arigo 07async-del * r56090 10pypy/pypy/ (6 files in 3 dirs): Still in-progress. Added some tests. | 20:23 |
| CIA-3 | 03arigo 07async-del * r56091 10pypy/pypy/interpreter/executioncontext.py: Minimal fix for test_pyframe. | 20:28 |
| CIA-3 | 03arigo 07async-del * r56092 10pypy/pypy/interpreter/pyframe.py: Obscure cases, untested :-/ | 20:30 |
| CIA-3 | 03arigo 07async-del * r56093 10pypy/pypy/interpreter/test/test_executioncontext.py: Fix test. | 20:30 |
| CIA-3 | 03arigo 07async-del * r56094 10pypy/pypy/module/gc/interp_gc.py: This line is no longer necessary. | 20:31 |
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| radix | antocuni: your pdb isn't compatible with the 'stdout' parameter to Pdb.__init__ | 20:41 |
| Action: antocuni looks | 20:42 | |
| CIA-3 | 03arigo 07async-del * r56095 10pypy/pypy/interpreter/executioncontext.py: Another potential fix. | 20:42 |
| antocuni | radix: my stdlib's pdb doesn't have a stdout parameter | 20:43 |
| antocuni | has it been added in py2.5? | 20:43 |
| radix | probably | 20:44 |
| radix | class Pdb(bdb.Bdb, cmd.Cmd): | 20:44 |
| radix | def __init__(self, completekey='tab', stdin=None, stdout=None): | 20:44 |
| CIA-3 | 03arigo 07async-del * r56096 10pypy/pypy/interpreter/executioncontext.py: Small optimizations for the case where we don't use tracing. | 20:45 |
| fijal | > AttributeError: 'ClassDef' object has no attribute 'minid' | 20:46 |
| fijal | grrr | 20:46 |
| fijal | what that might be??? | 20:46 |
| xorAxAx | fijal: class seen too late? | 20:47 |
| fijal | no | 20:47 |
| fijal | that's just obscure way of masking AttributeError | 20:47 |
| xorAxAx | hmm? | 20:47 |
| fijal | yes, it is | 20:47 |
| fijal | ClassDef is exceptions.AttributeError | 20:48 |
| antocuni | radix: try now | 20:49 |
| radix | antocuni: thanks | 20:50 |
| antocuni | welcome | 20:50 |
| radix | works | 20:51 |
| radix | fwiw, the reason I needed that is that doctest tries to use it, apparently | 20:52 |
| antocuni | radix: good luck, the interactions between pdb and doctests are far from clear to me | 20:53 |
| radix | antocuni: well, it works now :) | 20:53 |
| antocuni | good :-) | 20:53 |
| Action: antocuni afk | 20:53 | |
| radix | I didn't actually use the pdb support, but doctest instantiates a Pdb object Just In Case I guess | 20:53 |
| radix | seeya | 20:53 |
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| CarlosEDP | congratulations guys for the Google funding... pypy really deserves it... | 21:07 |
| cfbolz | thanks | 21:07 |
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| fijal | how can I get 'RuntimeError during flow graph construction'? | 21:22 |
| fzzzy | fijal: what nevow test was the one that failed? | 21:23 |
| fijal | fzzzy: the one that runs gc.get_referrers | 21:23 |
| fijal | it's remove from nevow now | 21:23 |
| fijal | (it was not testing anything) | 21:23 |
| fzzzy | I'm just wondering if I wrote it and why :) | 21:23 |
| fijal | I don't know | 21:24 |
| fijal | it contained pdb or sth (commented out) | 21:24 |
| fijal | and print | 21:24 |
| xorAxAx | :) | 21:24 |
| fijal | but no clue what it should be | 21:24 |
| exarkun | fzzzy: I think mg wrote it | 21:24 |
| fzzzy | ah, whew :) | 21:24 |
| fzzzy | hehe | 21:24 |
| exarkun | :) | 21:25 |
| fzzzy | thanks for helping get that working exarkun, that's totally awesome | 21:25 |
| fijal | exarkun: yeah, thx from me as well | 21:25 |
| CIA-3 | 03fijal * r56098 10pypy/pypy/rlib/ (_rsocket_rffi.py rpoll.py test/test_rpoll.py): Rpython level implementation of select with a single test | 21:27 |
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| fiddlerwoaroof | fijal: how can pypy help me? | 21:35 |
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| exarkun | it has transparent proxies and tasklets | 21:36 |
| fijal | fiddlerwoaroof: I think it'll be more trouble for you than usage | 21:38 |
| fijal | but check this out | 21:38 |
| fijal | http://codespeak.net/pypy/dist/pypy/doc/objspace-proxies.html#transparent-proxies | 21:38 |
| grubber | cfbolz: you around? | 21:45 |
| cfbolz | grubber: sort of | 21:45 |
| cfbolz | what's up? | 21:45 |
| grubber | not much...wollte mal hallo sagen :) | 21:46 |
| grubber | been busy with work, and ahvent been able to do much on the parsing stuff | 21:46 |
| cfbolz | that's fine, of course :-) | 21:46 |
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| cfbolz | grubber: note that bruno, our soc student, might do some parser stuff | 21:47 |
| grubber | cfbolz: good to know... i have some free time in the next couple days... anything i can help out on? | 21:47 |
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| CIA-3 | 03fijal * r56099 10pypy/pypy/rpython/lltypesystem/rffi.py: Cache results and don't invoke gcc over and over again | 21:51 |
| cfbolz | grubber: no clue, he is ill right now | 21:52 |
| CIA-3 | 03fijal * r56100 10pypy/pypy/module/select/ (__init__.py app_select.py interp_select.py): | 21:53 |
| CIA-3 | Implement select using select and not poll. This is somewhat faster and | 21:53 |
| CIA-3 | doesn't hang tests, which is a win already. | 21:53 |
| fijal | exarkun: done, let's wait an hour for compilation and see | 21:54 |
| fijal | exarkun: does twisted work on 64bit? | 21:54 |
| fijal | I can try compilation on bigdog's machine | 21:54 |
| grubber | cfbolz: any other tasks that wouldnt be too hard to get me going on? i dont want to interfere with what he's been doing | 21:54 |
| fijal | grubber: are you dead-set on parsing? | 21:54 |
| grubber | fijal: no... just sounded like fun, and it was fun to play with... im willing to help out any way i can (when i can that is) | 21:55 |
| fijal | grubber: running software on top of pypy is good | 21:55 |
| fijal | might be tedious in place though | 21:55 |
| grubber | fijal: what do ya mean? | 21:56 |
| fijal | like pick your favorite pypy program/web framework/whatever | 21:56 |
| fijal | and try to run it on top of pypy | 21:56 |
| fijal | other task which I was thinking about lately - write memory profiler, would be fairly simple | 21:57 |
| cfbolz | fijal: weeeell | 21:57 |
| CIA-3 | 03fijal * r56101 10pypy/pypy/module/select/interp_select.py: typo | 21:58 |
| fijal | depends on the level of complication you want :) | 21:58 |
| grubber | fijal: a mem profiler to profile pypy or a program running on pypy? | 21:58 |
| cfbolz | grubber: I don't know, maybe you could look into integrating the regex-based tokenizer into the parser without having to rewrite the parser | 21:58 |
| cfbolz | I still think that looking into parsing is very worthwhile | 21:58 |
| fijal | cfbolz: that's true | 21:59 |
| fijal | grubber: program running on pypy | 21:59 |
| fijal | bigdo1: what is your twistd doing consuming all CPU? (just curious) | 22:00 |
| grubber | cfbolz: well, the rlib.parsing is the part of pypy i know best | 22:01 |
| grubber | is pypy/interpreter/pyparser the location of the current parser for python? | 22:01 |
| fijal | grubber: yop. this is ugly mess | 22:02 |
| cfbolz | grubber: yes | 22:03 |
| cfbolz | grubber: don't worry. nobody knows this bit really :-) | 22:03 |
| grubber | cfbolz: wow... it is interesting! | 22:04 |
| grubber | so you'd like to replace the tokenizer/lexer with a regex version? | 22:04 |
| cfbolz | grubber: I wrote a regex-based version of the lexer | 22:05 |
| cfbolz | but it is not integrated with the rest | 22:05 |
| grubber | cfbolz: the one we played with a while back, right? | 22:05 |
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| cfbolz | yes | 22:05 |
| fiddlerwoaroof | what do the colors mean in the pypy to c translation? | 22:06 |
| cfbolz | fiddlerwoaroof: mandelbrot fractal | 22:06 |
| fiddlerwoaroof | I see | 22:07 |
| fiddlerwoaroof | It looked familiar | 22:07 |
| exarkun | hm | 22:07 |
| cfbolz | exarkun: ? | 22:07 |
| exarkun | cfbolz: translate.py should also find the coordinates of the resulting pypy-c in the mandelbrot set and report them | 22:08 |
| grubber | cfbolz: i dont know if you looked at the last stuff i had done | 22:08 |
| exarkun | or interpret the resulting pypy-c as coordinates and render that part of the mandelbrot set | 22:08 |
| grubber | my goal was to create a class that could compare the output of that lexer with the output of the CPython tokenize modules | 22:08 |
| exarkun | that might actually be possible :) | 22:08 |
| grubber | use it to help test correctness of the output | 22:09 |
| cfbolz | exarkun: most of them might be boring | 22:09 |
| cfbolz | grubber: ah, I remember vaguely | 22:09 |
| grubber | cfbolz: do you think that would be useful? or would you rather i try something else? | 22:09 |
| cfbolz | grubber: no, sounds good | 22:10 |
| cfbolz | grubber: and then fix the bugs, of course :-) | 22:10 |
| grubber | cfbolz: haha. of course. was heisst "bug" auf de? | 22:11 |
| cfbolz | bug | 22:11 |
| cfbolz | or "fehler" | 22:11 |
| grubber | haha. boring :) | 22:11 |
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| fijal | fiddlerwoaroof: what options did you use for translation? | 22:19 |
| grubber | fijal or cfbolz: when i was trying to get newline endings to work, i found inconsistency in cpython vs the stdlib tokenize module | 22:19 |
| grubber | i posted a bug, but GvR denied it (it is a bug, IMO) | 22:20 |
| grubber | but he suggested that we could open files using new-style line endings | 22:20 |
| grubber | then we dont have to handle \n vs \r vs \r\n | 22:20 |
| CIA-3 | 03fijal * r56102 10pypy/pypy/module/select/interp_select.py: Fix translation | 22:20 |
| grubber | is that doable? | 22:20 |
| xorAxAx | grubber: i guess you need to add U at the right spot. good luck. :) | 22:21 |
| cfbolz | didn't armin recently fix that on trunk? | 22:21 |
| fijal | fiddlerwoaroof: if you want to use it, you need to pass few options to the translation | 22:21 |
| fijal | (like --allworkingmoduleS) | 22:21 |
| fijal | cfbolz: no, he said it might be trivial like ... | 22:21 |
| cfbolz | grubber: yes, so you might have to hunt where the file is actually opened :-( | 22:22 |
| fijal | we need to update default options... | 22:23 |
| grubber | cfbolz: i can do that... didnt know if that would be "off limits" because of how pypy worked | 22:23 |
| cfbolz | grubber: it might be on interp-level. in which case we need to do it a bit differently than just adding a U | 22:24 |
| fijal | https://codespeak.net/issue/pypy-dev/issue378 | 22:25 |
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| grubber | fijal: has anyone tried it? | 22:26 |
| cfbolz | don't think so | 22:27 |
| cfbolz | grubber: write a test, fix the problem and be done :-) | 22:27 |
| grubber | haha, ok, ill try it out :) | 22:27 |
| cfbolz | grubber: cool that you work on stuff | 22:29 |
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| grubber | cfbolz: im happy to help out :) | 22:30 |
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| radix | ok guys | 22:31 |
| radix | time for pypy to win, now that guido says that quality control is a bad idea | 22:31 |
| cfbolz | he does? | 22:33 |
| grubber | radix: where did you read taht? | 22:33 |
| radix | it's hearsay, of course :) | 22:33 |
| cfbolz | yay, flamewar | 22:33 |
| exarkun | it's on python-dev | 22:33 |
| fzzzy (n=donovan@office.mochimedia.net) joined #pypy. | 22:34 | |
| exarkun | "Heck, we don't even roll back if one of our own buildbots | 22:34 |
| cfbolz | radix: we are working on it | 22:34 |
| exarkun | goes red." | 22:34 |
| exarkun | is one particularly nice quote | 22:34 |
| xorAxAx | red is just another shade of green anyway | 22:35 |
| radix | xorAxAx: exarkun is red, you're green | 22:35 |
| radix | (in my IRC client) | 22:35 |
| cfbolz | in mine too | 22:37 |
| cfbolz | radix: you are blue-greenish | 22:37 |
| xorAxAx | you are all grey, how boring :) | 22:37 |
| radix | :) | 22:37 |
| antocuni | radix, cfbolz: seems that we are all using the same IRC client :-) | 22:38 |
| xorAxAx | there is an irssi script to adapt the xchat hash algo | 22:38 |
| cfbolz | do we know for sure that GvR isn't color-blind? | 22:39 |
| xorAxAx | the buildbot community hasnt solved that accessiblity issue, has it? | 22:39 |
| carrus85 | exarkun: holy crap, I've had that thing sitting in my inbox and didn't even notice. (regarding the flamewar). Thanks for the heads up! | 22:40 |
| exarkun | xorAxAx: pssh. | 22:40 |
| exarkun | xorAxAx: That's what css is for. Go read the CSS level 3 specification. | 22:41 |
| radix | heh | 22:41 |
| xorAxAx | exarkun: zsshh pssh tss | 22:41 |
| exarkun | If there's not actually a browser that supports any of those features, that's probably Mozilla's fault, not buildbot's. | 22:41 |
| exarkun | carrus85: enjoy :p | 22:41 |
| xorAxAx | exarkun: css level 3 can remap colours based on the features of the user? :) | 22:41 |
| exarkun | xorAxAx: no, way better than that | 22:42 |
| xorAxAx | but you got a point. we are in irc where social problems are always solved technically :) | 22:42 |
| exarkun | xorAxAx: it can let you provide information in a way which allows it to show up as red/green for people with a "normal" configuration and in a different way for other people, such as those who are R/G colorblind | 22:42 |
| exarkun | xorAxAx: or give hints to a screenreader | 22:42 |
| exarkun | xorAxAx: and so on | 22:42 |
| exarkun | well, all problems have technical solutions, of course. | 22:43 |
| cfbolz | of course | 22:43 |
| exarkun | in the absolute worst case, you just make the sun go nova. | 22:43 |
| xorAxAx | exarkun: yeah. but probably one wants a default config that works on most browsers for nearly everybody? :) | 22:43 |
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| xorAxAx | ghosts III - 34 | 22:44 |
| xorAxAx | oops | 22:44 |
| Action: xorAxAx recomposed the swarm movie with NIN - ghosts III - 34. it will be available soon on vimeo | 22:45 | |
| cfbolz | :-) | 22:45 |
| exarkun | xorAxAx: nah | 22:46 |
| xorAxAx | approximately 25 min. left until the video will have been processed on their rendering machines | 22:47 |
| exarkun | xorAxAx: hm, they are offering a rendering service now? | 22:48 |
| xorAxAx | lets call it post processing :) | 22:49 |
| exarkun | xorAxAx: url? | 22:50 |
| xorAxAx | exarkun: will publish it when its ready :) | 22:51 |
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| Nick change: CarlosEDP__ -> CarlosEDP | 22:51 | |
| exarkun | you confused me | 22:51 |
| exarkun | what did you mean "will have been processed on their rendering machines"? | 22:52 |
| xorAxAx | they are transcoding it currently | 22:52 |
| xorAxAx | wasnt the future perfect habitual correct? | 22:53 |
| fijal | exarkun: nice flamewar btw | 22:54 |
| exarkun | xorAxAx: I wanted the URL to their transcoding service :) | 22:55 |
| xorAxAx | exarkun: ah. thats internal | 22:56 |
| xorAxAx | you need to upload a movie | 22:56 |
| exarkun | okay I'm just gonna give up | 22:57 |
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| cfbolz | exarkun: you are not exactly it very clear what your question is :-) | 22:58 |
| cfbolz | mwhudson: hi! | 22:58 |
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| Action: mwhudson is having a day full of the frustrations of modern life | 23:00 | |
| fijal | mwhudson: like? | 23:01 |
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| jacob22 | mwhudson: Welcome to the century of the fruitbat. | 23:01 |
| xorAxAx | filling out 27b-6 forms? | 23:01 |
| mwhudson | well, mainly having internet disconnected at the old place but not yet connected at the new place | 23:01 |
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| mwhudson | xorAxAx: oh yes, and having both my isp and the tax department not being very keen on answering the phone | 23:02 |
| Action: pedronis goes to bed | 23:02 | |
| pedronis | see you, gn | 23:02 |
| xorAxAx | probably you need to contact their information retrieval dept. :-) | 23:02 |
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| fijal | heh | 23:04 |
| mwhudson | nah, it's not really like that, they're actually pretty friendly when you get through | 23:04 |
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| cfbolz | mwhudson: seen the blog post? | 23:07 |
| mwhudson | unlikely | 23:11 |
| cfbolz | http://google-opensource.blogspot.com/2008/06/pypy-progress-python-fast-and-flexible.html (also on the pypy blog) | 23:12 |
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| fiddlerwoaroof | does "[translation] start debugger..." mean something failed? | 23:20 |
| xorAxAx | fiddlerwoaroof: no | 23:20 |
| xorAxAx | just for convenience | 23:20 |
| fiddlerwoaroof | does it mean I'm done? | 23:20 |
| xorAxAx | yes, if there was no error before that line | 23:20 |
| fiddlerwoaroof | ok | 23:21 |
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| fiddlerwoaroof | pypy can't parse mdir1 here: http://pastebin.com/m7c320924 | 23:23 |
| fiddlerwoaroof | :-) | 23:23 |
| cfbolz | fiddlerwoaroof: pypy doesn't support 2.5 features yet | 23:24 |
| cfbolz | (like the ternary operator) | 23:24 |
| fiddlerwoaroof | I see | 23:24 |
| fiddlerwoaroof | that was such a cool one-liner | 23:24 |
| cfbolz | fiddlerwoaroof: we have a soc project for 2.5 compat | 23:27 |
| fiddlerwoaroof | how is it progressing? | 23:27 |
| xorAxAx | http://www.rubyenterpriseedition.com/faq.html#what_is_this | 23:29 |
| xorAxAx | they tuned the language a lot by writing a better gc | 23:29 |
| xorAxAx | differently said, they tuned the gc for ast interpretation | 23:29 |
| xorAxAx | ah, they just made gc cow friendly | 23:31 |
| xorAxAx | it seems like ruby systems need a lot of forks | 23:31 |
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| fijal | xorAxAx: just-another-ruby-fork? | 23:39 |
| xorAxAx | yep | 23:40 |
| fijal | any link? | 23:40 |
| fijal | there was a lot of talk about ruby not addressing problems | 23:40 |
| xorAxAx | ? | 23:40 |
| xorAxAx | see 5 lines above | 23:40 |
| fijal | security issues | 23:41 |
| xorAxAx | yeah, ruby is the new php | 23:42 |
| xorAxAx | http://vimeo.com/1239150 | 23:42 |
| xorAxAx | there it is | 23:42 |
| fijal | "It is observed that a lot of memory in Ruby on Rails applications is taken by AST nodes" | 23:43 |
| fijal | only as long as you have mostly code | 23:43 |
| fijal | 33% memory reduction and faster? Is this for real? | 23:43 |
| fijal | sounds like american supermarket to me | 23:43 |
| xorAxAx | ... the codeswarm video | 23:44 |
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| fiddlerwoaroof | how mature is pyp? | 23:48 |
| cfbolz | fiddlerwoaroof: depends on your definiton | 23:49 |
| cfbolz | nobody is using it in production yet | 23:50 |
| fiddlerwoaroof | is it usable in a production environment? | 23:50 |
| cfbolz | probably. hard to know without trying | 23:51 |
| fiddlerwoaroof | will it support most python2.4 code? | 23:52 |
| cfbolz | it should support everything except CPython extension-modules | 23:53 |
| cfbolz | some of the more important one have been re-implemented though | 23:53 |
| fiddlerwoaroof | cfbolz: twisted is the most important for me | 23:53 |
| fiddlerwoaroof | twisted.web to be most specific | 23:54 |
| cfbolz | ah | 23:54 |
| fijal | twsited.web works as far as I remember | 23:54 |
| fijal | there are some glitches with select reactor | 23:55 |
| fijal | which I'm working on right now | 23:55 |
| fijal | but poll reactor should work | 23:55 |
| fijal | no pyopenssl though | 23:55 |
| fiddlerwoaroof | does pypy support anything like LISP macros? | 23:55 |
| fijal | nope | 23:56 |
| --- Fri Jun 27 2008 | 00:00 | |
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