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xorAxAxarigato: i just got some feedback by somebody evaluating all ordered dict classes: about your impl, he says "this perfect odict fails 12 tests, and triggers exceptions in 2 others" (This message has been postponed.)08:54
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arigatoxorAxAx: interesting but useless information so far :-)08:58
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fijalmorning09:14
CIA-303fijal * r53898 10pypy/pypy/doc/extending.txt: Document that was laying down in my wc forever.09:16
arigatomorning09:16
CIA-303fijal * r53899 10pypy/pypy/doc/discussion/gc.txt: first attempt to document new experimental gc features09:17
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CIA-303cami 07gameboy-emulator * r53900 10pypy/pypy/lang/gameboy/ (cartridge.py test/test_cartridge.py): introducing cartride classe which merges some functions from cartridgeStoreDriver and CartridgeFactory09:31
xorAxAxarigato: indeed, he used the ABC tests and they seem to be fairly broken itself :-)09:37
arigatoisn't that testing the py3k dict api?09:44
xorAxAxarigato: he took the tests from 2.609:45
xorAxAxi think they backported that09:45
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arigatocan't find any such test09:50
Action: xorAxAx checks09:50
xorAxAxarigato: mapping_tests.py09:52
arigatoah, not related to abc then09:52
xorAxAxok09:53
arigatothis file is here almost unmodified since 2.09:53
arigato2.409:53
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Action: xorAxAx asks him09:57
arigatomany tests fail just because UserDict don't define __eq__09:58
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arigatowrong, sorry09:59
arigatomany tests fail because OrederedDict is explicitly not == to a regular dict10:00
arigatoit's only == to another OrderedDict in which the order is the same10:01
xorAxAxyep10:03
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cfbolzhi!10:36
mwhudson__hello cf10:37
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cfbolzhi michael!10:38
Action: cfbolz found a bug in SWI-Prolog today10:40
cfbolz(yesterday night, more)10:40
arigatohi!10:45
arigatocfbolz: cool, we can add SWI-Prolog to the list of projects that PyPy found bugs in10:45
cfbolzyes10:46
cfbolzarigato: basically atom_concat(X, X, abcabc) gives wrong solutions10:46
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arigatowhat is it?10:46
stakkarsarigato: still up???10:47
arigatoouch10:47
xorAxAxstakkars: its 11:4610:48
Action: stakkars got really weird timing problems with psyco, btw.10:48
arigatowaa10:48
arigatostakkars: you're getting the timezone correction algorithm wrong10:48
arigatoit's almost lunch time around here10:48
xorAxAxcfbolz: i get No.10:48
stakkarsarigato: ok, this hanntz again. NP :-)10:49
xorAxAxhmm10:49
stakkarswhen I'm going2bed late-nite, then it is the opposite 4u10:49
xorAxAxstakkars: how is psyco stuff working out?10:50
stakkarshappns10:50
stakkarsktbrckboard...10:50
stakkarsOK I will sleep NOW10:51
stakkarsbut something about psyco timing is completely insane.10:52
stakkarsarigo: do you patch any of the timing functions?10:53
stakkarsI got such a weird timing behavior that I doubt in myself. Which is within reason...10:54
stakkarsok, ok, I will find it alone, like so many times.10:56
arigatostakkars: I can't answer this without knowing more details10:56
arigatowhat timing functions are you referring to?  time.time()?10:57
stakkarsand I don't want to spoil you with details10:57
stakkarsyes.10:58
arigatono, nothing special about the time module10:58
stakkarsI found alarm, but that doesn't apply.10:58
stakkarsThere are some quite innocent timing functions from Raymond, got save his soul.10:59
cfbolzxorAxAx: isn't that wrong too?10:59
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arigatocfbolz: there is custom code in atom_concat for exactly this case...10:59
antocunihi!10:59
arigatohi!10:59
xorAxAxcfbolz: hmm, the docs say "non-deterministically" but i guess one might reasonably expect X to be abc10:59
antocuninice channel topic :-)11:00
cfbolzarigato: in the swi source?11:00
arigatoyes11:00
stakkarsthey are repeating some timing of compiled psyco functions.11:00
cfbolzarigato: where? I tried to fix it but couldn't. anyway, it's fixed in the repo now11:00
arigatostakkars: are you talking about the code that I can't even see?11:01
stakkarsan d from time to time, during some timing code that tests a few functions of a module,11:01
arigatocfbolz: grep atom_concat in src11:01
arigatocfbolz: ah, it's fixed in the swi repo?11:01
stakkarsyes I am. forget about it.11:01
cfbolzarigato: I reported the bug yesterday and they fixed it11:02
arigatogreat11:02
stakkarsI am trying a release, with Fabrizio, but we fall into deep traps.11:02
cfbolzarigato: which file are you looking at?11:02
arigatocfbolz: don't remember the file name, the function name was pl_atom_concat()11:02
arigatoin a .c file11:02
stakkarsI'm talking about code that you don't want to see.11:03
arigatothe custom code I found was in the function concat()11:03
stakkarsdidn't11:03
cfbolzarigato: right, I looked at that too yesterday11:03
cfbolzarigato: but it didn't seem to account for sharing of the two first arguments11:04
arigatostakkars: that's right, I wouldn't have agreed to any condition about not redistributing the code, so I was not allowed to see it11:04
xorAxAxwhich is a bit weird because one might assume that people would have used that idiom before :)11:04
arigatocfbolz: then it was indeed fixed in the meantime :-)11:04
cfbolzarigato: when did you get your checkout?11:05
arigato20 minutes ago11:05
stakkarsconfused ?!!?11:05
cfbolzarigato: right11:05
stakkarsthere are too many negations in "stakkars: that's right, I wouldn't have agreed to any condition about not redistributing the code, so I was not allowed to see it" for me to respond, properly11:06
stakkarsI will try again, more positively. :-)11:07
stakkarsanyway, I'm lost in translation, right now.11:08
xorAxAxwould be a nice title for a movie about psyco or the pypy jit :)11:08
cfbolz:-)11:09
stakkarsnot that new, but still an opportunity11:09
cfbolzstakkars: are the hurdles for making a release technical right now? or political?11:09
stakkarsarigato: just asking in a general way...11:09
stakkarstechnical.11:10
stakkarsarigato: If I'm probing a compiled function, 7 times, and it happens to use a hundred times more time on the11:11
cfbolzwell, maybe then you could make available the current version somewhere already, because helping is much easier if you can look at it11:11
stakkarsfirst two calls, does that ring a bell with you?11:11
stakkarsand this happens reproducably, on windows and osx.11:12
xorAxAxwhy do you think that it is "compiled"?11:12
cfbolzarigato: should we do a bit of prolog pairing?11:12
stakkarssame code, just repeated.11:12
stakkarscfbolz: I need to ask for admission, of course.11:12
arigatostakkars: same comment as cfbolz11:13
arigatoI've nothing against closed-source forks (I wouldn't use the MIT Licence) but don't count on me for blind-debugging it11:13
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arigatocfbolz: I'm off to lunch11:13
arigatoat around 1:30?11:13
cfbolzarigato: ok, sounds good11:14
arigatostakkars: sorry, can't help now11:14
stakkarsI am somehow between the tree and the bork11:15
xorAxAxwuah:11:15
xorAxAx-11:15
xorAxAx+import os;11:15
xorAxAx.oO(no, semicolons are not needed to make code rpythonic)11:15
stakkarsarigato: yes, I didn't expect this, either. just wanted to disturb.11:15
cfbolzxorAxAx: where is this?11:16
xorAxAxcfbolz: r5390011:16
xorAxAxgbx branch11:16
cfbolzstakkars: sure, I understand it's not a fun situation for you. however, you are the only one who can effectively do anything against this11:16
stakkarscfbolz: I bugged arigo about three times, till now, and it always saved me a lot. that's why. :-)11:18
cfbolzstakkars: maybe you should bug whoever is responsible for allowing to release the code three times :-)11:18
CIA-303cfbolz 07gameboy-emulator * r53901 10pypy/pypy/lang/gameboy/cartridge.py: kill some semicolons  you don't need them in Python11:19
stakkarscfbolz: non comprehende. cause I announced it three times?11:19
cfbolzstakkars: I think you could go to your supperiors and say "I want to make it available now"11:20
cfbolznot as a release, just put it into a public repo11:21
stakkarsthis no longer a fun project; it turned out to be a PITA11:21
cfbolz:-(11:22
stakkarsunfortunately there is more about it. But I will try on Monday.11:22
cfbolzwell, ok11:22
cfbolzbut I wouldn't expect armin to think about this as long as it is not available11:23
stakkarsI just hoped for an "aha, yes, this is a common effect" effect.11:23
stakkarsbecause the timing behavior defeats all my logic so far.11:24
stakkarsbut sure, I can come up with more dirty trousers to shudder about :-)11:25
stakkarsg'nite11:25
Action: cfbolz walk11:28
stakkarsarigato: is there any cheating about time.time/clock ?11:38
stakkarsthat's all I'm asking, today.11:38
arigatostakkars: maybe I found a way to solve the chicken-and-egg issue11:40
stakkars?????11:40
xorAxAxstakkars: he means the non-available code :)11:40
arigatoyes11:40
arigatostakkars: I can agree to help debugging the code if I receive a copy with a licence that says:11:41
arigato"this code can be freely redistributed under the MIT Licence after the 1st of July 2008"11:41
arigatoor something like that11:41
arigatoin this way, I have a guarantee that I'm helping an open source project, and I'm happy11:41
stakkarsyes, but I see by my best wilt no way how this can be related to the code. It is just insane.11:42
stakkarsWell, I will try it, as you said.11:42
arigatochoose the date to be well after your expected release date11:42
arigatoso that if the release occurs, this clause doesn't matter to you at all11:43
stakkarsbut how can already compiled psyco code behave such differently, or is it a mac issue?11:43
arigatoI have no clue, it doesn't ring any bell to me11:44
stakkarsok, that's something to me.11:44
stakkarsI'm refactoring like hell to see where speed goes, and things are completely counter-intuitive.11:46
stakkarsyes I will ask them on Monday.11:46
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stakkarsbtw., compact object gave me a had time, again. I wished I had the time to refactor it to no longer abuse propagation.11:47
stakkars(tamed it, anyway, by another hack)11:48
Action: stakkars swares to stop quibbling, now11:49
cfbolzback12:38
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xorAxAxinteresting, http://gcc.gnu.org/wiki/whopr16:03
xorAxAxhttp://gcc.gnu.org/wiki/DeadlySins of a compiler writer :)16:04
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CIA-303fijal * r53910 10pypy/pypy/translator/c/genc.py: don't prevent profopt from happening16:27
CIA-303fijal * r53911 10pypy/pypy/objspace/descroperation.py: hotpath for comparisons16:28
xorAxAxfijal: did you benchmark 53911?16:28
fijalyop16:30
xorAxAxcool, how much faster?16:30
CIA-303fijal * r53912 10pypy/pypy/interpreter/pyframe.py: pre-alloc 20 items here.16:30
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CIA-303fijal * r53913 10pypy/pypy/interpreter/pyopcode.py: use one class instead of many.16:33
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xorAxAxfijal: whats the advantage of 53919?16:53
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tverwaesxorAxAx: we - won't - tell - you - we - won't - tell - you 18:25
tverwaes:)18:25
xorAxAxtverwaes: yeah, seems to be a secret checkin :)18:26
cfbolzit basically prevents a virtual method call18:26
xorAxAxcfbolz: yeah, but he does dispatching with if18:27
xorAxAxi guess that he will start pooling18:27
xorAxAxand needs polymorphic class instances :-)18:27
cfbolzstupid micro-optimizations18:28
xorAxAx:-)18:28
xorAxAxwell, if you could change the type of instances in rpython, it might be easier :-)18:28
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cfbolzhi samuele!18:51
pedronishi18:51
arigatohi18:52
pedronis53913 unless is producing a really great speed up seems a bit overboard18:52
arigatoargh18:53
xorAxAxpedronis: i dont think that it produces a speedup :)18:53
arigatoit makes little sense in a smallfunc build IMHO18:53
pedronisthat too18:53
xorAxAx19:25:46 < xorAxAx> i guess that he will start pooling18:53
xorAxAx19:25:57 < xorAxAx> and needs polymorphic class instances :-)18:53
xorAxAxbut because he hasnt replied yet, we can only guess18:53
cfbolzbut pooling makes no sense with a good gc18:54
xorAxAxcfbolz: depends, even the jvm does pooling and has a good gc :-)18:54
pedronisbut this objects are really shortlived18:54
tverwaesstupid question: what does "pooling" mean? :)18:54
pedronisis not like they are frames18:54
xorAxAxtverwaes: manually keeping a freelist18:55
tverwaesor is it like a constants pool18:55
tverwaesok18:55
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pedronisxorAxAx: I would really like fijal to understand that logs messages are indeed there because we cannot read people brains19:03
xorAxAxhehe :)19:03
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pedronisconsidering the tangle that calls are already also anything that gives speedups less than 20% should be left alone until we take a fresh look at the whole thing19:05
xorAxAxyou mean indirect calls?19:05
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pedronisI mean python level calls19:06
xorAxAxor interpreter calls? (then what gives less than 20%?)19:06
pedronisI'm saying that I want checkins that says I got this speedup19:06
xorAxAxah!19:06
pedronisand is larger equal thatn 20%19:06
xorAxAxyes, lets see what he presents19:07
pedronisinstead of being left puzzling about what is going on in his brain19:07
arigatopedronis: I'll ask fijal when he comes around to please hack on a branch19:07
pedronisthanks19:08
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xorAxAxarigato: hopefully if space.py3k is not the only way to get it working ...20:15
xorAxAx(in a perfect world at least :))20:16
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xorAxAxhmm, py3k has __instancecheck__ and __subclasscheck__ ... that would finally mean that one could write completly transparent proxies, right?22:58
xorAxAxah, hmm, type() remains22:58
exarkuntype can already be fooled, at least on cpython23:08
exarkunhmm can it?  maybe I'm thinking of something else.23:09
exarkunmaybe isinstance is the thing that can already be fooled, so those two methods don't do anything23:09
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xorAxAxexarkun: how can you fool it? :) by patching some __class__ attribute/descriptor somewhere?23:18
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exarkunxorAxAx: yea23:21
xorAxAxhmm, a __type__ slot would be nice23:22
xorAxAxwith some sys.real_type function :)23:22
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