#pypy IRC log for Wednesday, 2007-10-31

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coldtonerxe - r48219 - try and make the interface richer00:55
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stakkarsrxe: you have an email on stackless!02:45
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lac_morning everybody09:49
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alonnewbie question #2: is __getitem__ supposed to work?12:45
alonI mean can I translate code using that?12:45
xorAxAxno __-methods work, except for __init__ and __del__12:45
alonok, thanks.12:46
alonbtw - the error message is a little cryptic. It just says "Blocked block -- operation cannot succeed" "v1 = getattr(v0, ('x'))"12:47
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alonnewbie q. 3# (and thanks for the patience): I sometimes get the following error: AttributeError': 'MethodDesc' object has no attribute 's_read_attribute'. My "solution" is simply to ignore it, since rerunning the code usually makes it go away. At first I thought it was a python2.5/2.4 issue, so I deleted all pyc files and reran with python2.4 (I sometimes accidentally run with python2.5), but there it is again, sometimes appearing, and then disappearing.12:50
alonIs this something known?12:50
alonto clarify: I'm just doing a translation of a piece of code: Translation(some_func).annotate([])12:57
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cfbolzalon: are you storing attributes on functions?13:00
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xorAxAxmoin antocuni 13:30
cfbolzhi anto!13:30
aloncfbolz: I'll have to check.13:38
cfbolzalon: is it a hard error? or just a warning?13:44
aloncfbolz: hard error - the moment I manage to recreate it I'll paste the stack trace.13:44
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aloncfbolz: I'm running under python2.4 -mpdb (full cmdline is python2.4 -mpdb pypy_test.py). I put the stacktrace on my wiki at http://wiki.saymoo.org/PyPy to avoid pasting it all here.13:51
cfbolzalon: you can use paste.pocoo.org13:52
cfbolzit's a page to paste stuff - try it13:52
cfbolzanyway, could you go up into the pdb until you get to the flowin function13:52
alonbut it doesn't syntax highlight python code :) I'll give it a try anyway.13:53
cfbolzand do a "print graph.name" there13:53
cfbolzalon: yes, it _does_ syntax-highlight13:53
cfbolzis that a function of yours?13:54
alonah, yes.13:55
alondef func_or_method_name(f_or_m):13:55
alon    if hasattr(f_or_m, 'func_name'):13:55
alon        return f_or_m.func_name13:55
alon    else:13:55
alon        return f_or_m.im_func.func_name13:55
alonI guess I'm not supposed to do that..13:55
santagadaalon: in rpython? probably not13:55
alonyeah, thanks.13:56
cfbolzthat is not rpython at all :-)13:56
antocuniI think it would work only if f_or_m is constant :-)13:56
Action: cfbolz is off for a while13:56
alon[exit stage left]13:56
antocunialon: anyway, are you aware that you can't mix functions and bound methods in rpython?13:57
alonantocuni: no. I'm pitifully unaware of a lot of things it seems.13:57
antocuniyeah, unfortunately there is not a comprehensive guide to what is rpython and what not13:58
alonmy rant in my blog is the start of one ;)13:59
antocunigood :-)13:59
antocunialon: as a general rule, try to figure out how you could implement each particular feature in C; if there is not an obvious solution, it's probably not rpython14:00
antocunifor example: how would you implement a variable that contains either a function or a bound method in C?14:00
alonwell, seeing as there is a completely c based python implementation, I guess you mean "easily" :)14:00
alonerr, I'll use some union with two structs, etc..14:01
antocunimostly I mean "efficient"14:01
alonright. I get that.14:01
antocuniof course I'm not saying it's impossible to implement14:01
santagadaantocuni: I always thought that im_func was not rpython also14:14
antocunisantagada: I guess it should work on a constant14:18
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antocunihi armi14:18
cfbolzhi armin14:36
cfbolzalon: anyway, we warned you that trying to translate an existing rpython program is hard14:37
aloncfbolz: I'm not saying you didn't..14:52
aloncfbolz: I just like the graphs :)14:52
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pauldegHi everyone!14:57
arigatoalon: there is some basic docs about what you can do in RPython14:57
pauldegThe new blog is an awesome idea, and it was exciting to see the pictures and follow the blog from the squeak sprint14:57
facetonearigo - r48225 - Fix the test, add a new one.14:57
pauldegAlso, I'm still working on the JSR 223 bindings (it's more difficult than I expected), but I should have something for everyone in about a week14:58
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pauldegI still haven't tested the autonomic framework on PyPy yet, but I plan to do so before Firday, I'll email pypy-dev with the results14:59
pauldeglastly, are there any pypy developers that use some form of the dvorak layout?  I'm thinking of switching14:59
alonarigato: thanks15:00
antocunihi paul!15:17
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pauldeghi antocuni!15:56
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arigatocan someone help me with apache2?16:16
arigatoI'm searching on codespeak for the config file that asks apache2 to export, say, http://codespeak.net/svn/16:16
arigatoand I'm completely failing to find anything at all in the whole /etc directory and all subdirectories16:17
arigatousing grep16:17
antocuniarigato: locate httpd.conf tells me that there are a lot of these files around16:23
antocunimaybe the directive is in some of those16:23
arigatoantocuni: ah, I found it16:24
antocuniwhere is it?16:24
arigatoit's /etc/apache2/httpd.conf as expected,16:24
arigatowhich includes all the files /www/*..inc16:25
arigatoso what I was looking for was in /www/svn..inc16:25
antocunithat's why grep didn't find it!16:25
arigatoyes, I didn't really expect it to be outside /Etc16:25
cfbolzarigato: do you feel like looking a bit around for mailing list creation?16:30
santagadalighthttpd don't work with svn yet? because that is so much easier to configure16:30
arigatocfbolz: I can16:30
exarkunsantagada: "so much"?16:31
exarkunsantagada: your perspective might need some adjustment16:31
santagadaexarkun: yep, soooo much16:31
santagadaexarkun: tons and tons16:31
exarkunsantagada: I might believe "slightly"16:31
santagadaexarkun: the only worse config file than apache is sendmail, that one I never understood16:31
cfbolzarigato: cool16:32
santagadaexarkun: I think it is way way easier16:32
exarkunsantagada: "so much" involves not having a custom configuration syntax based on regular expressions and pseudo-shell variables16:32
santagadaexarkun: perception maybe16:32
Action: cfbolz is trying to get into the state of mind where filling out travel money forms is easy16:32
santagadaexarkun: but I think it was easier... I configured a simple server in 5 minutes16:33
exarkunsantagada: you seem to be missing the point16:33
arigatoI suspect that the "perspective adjustment" requires a few days of reading man or html pages16:33
exarkunsantagada: they're both ridiculously complex to configure.16:34
arigatothere are just cases in which all someone wants is a basic server running in 5 minutes16:34
xorAxAxa basic server is 1 line of python :)16:35
cfbolzarigato: SimpleHTTPServer? :-)16:35
arigatoyes, I really only use that in practice, although I'm aware that you'd have to work hard to make it suitable e.g. for the whole of http://codespeak.net16:36
cfbolzok, ok :-)16:36
Action: arigato finds an executable /www/mailman/bin/newlist16:37
arigatocfbolz: ok, what name do we use?16:37
arigatopypy-squeak@codespeak.net looks ok16:38
cfbolzsounds good to me16:38
arigatocfbolz: do you feel like being "the person running the list"?16:40
santagadacfbolz: why not use pypy-dev?16:40
santagadacfbolz: ah, I will just joint pypy-squeak... I want to keep informed about it16:41
cfbolzarigato: yes16:41
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cfbolzarigato: that means moderating and all that?16:41
arigatoI don't know16:41
cfbolzI think so16:42
arigatoyou might be the one that gets notifications e.g. when someone unsubscribed tries to post16:42
arigatook, the message I get is a bit unclear but you might have received an e-mail16:43
cfbolzI did!16:44
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arigatodid you get the admin password too?16:46
cfbolzyes, you want it too?16:47
arigatono, I have it - I generated it myself, it's not auto-generated16:47
arigatothere are a few settings to change in the admin web interface16:48
arigatoare you doing that right now or should I go ahead?16:48
cfbolzarigato: please go ahead16:52
cfbolzI am mostly confused by all the options:)16:52
arigatoit seems that something is wrong16:54
arigatomy changes are not saved16:54
arigatofile permission issue I guess16:54
arigatoI fixed them but it's still not saving my changes17:05
arigatothere is nothing in the error logs either17:05
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arigatook, via the command-line interface it works17:08
arigatoso in case you need it17:08
arigatoyou need to become the "mailman" user on codespeak17:09
arigatoand use /www/mailman/bin/config_list17:09
cfbolzarigato: ah, good to know17:12
antocuniarigato, cfbolz: I can't subscribe to that least17:17
antocuni"you must supply a valid email address"17:17
cfbolzhm I get the same17:18
arigatolet me try to kill the list and re-create it while being "mailman" instead of "root"17:24
arigatoah, there is a web form to create new lists17:26
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arigatocfbolz: ok, re-created via the web form17:32
Action: antocuni tries again17:33
arigatolooks better, I can save list setting changes now17:34
Action: antocuni is the first and only subscriber!17:35
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Action: arigato is number two17:38
Action: cfbolz is not getting a confirmation mail so far17:40
cfbolzarigato: I am sending a private mail to the participants of the bern sprint tonight, ok?17:41
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Action: cfbolz managed to do an incredible amount of paperwork today18:19
xorAxAxoh, what happened?18:23
xorAxAxcfbolz: started a company? :)18:23
cfbolzxorAxAx: nono18:24
cfbolzonly uni stuff18:25
cfbolzI am now officially a master student18:25
arigatocongratulation, I suppose18:25
cfbolzarigato: thank you :-)18:25
cfbolzthe grade of the bachelor is 1.1 "mit auszeichnung"18:26
cfbolzso I am happy18:26
xorAxAxbut only because you avoided UML :)18:27
cfbolzonly because of that, yes :-)18:27
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santagadarxe: hi21:55
rxesantagada: hi!21:56
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facetonerxe - r48229 - fix translator.llvm.test.test_symbolic: test_sizeof_constsize_struct by arigo r4820122:20
facetonerxe - r48230 - support richer inputs (like strings, unichars) for testing22:36
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simonp1nano: hi!22:54
nanohi :) where's a good place to start looking for info if I run into problems running py.py on windows? (python 2.5.1)22:55
simonp1right here.22:55
simonp1i think christian (stakkars) is working with windows.22:56
simonp1it's a bit late for the europeans ATM.22:56
nanoyeah, heh22:56
nanowell, have you heard of "distutils.errors.DistutilsPlatformError: Python was built with Visual Studio 2003;" before?22:56
nanojust trying to run py.py, not translate22:57
simonp1hmm, it may still use the c compiler to configure itself.22:57
nanoyeah, I think it's trying to find the size of an int22:57
nanolooking at the stack trace22:57
nanodon't know how to specify to try a different compiler22:58
simonp1not sure if gcc is supported on windows.22:58
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nanogoing to add msvc to PATH and see if that fixes it...23:01
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santagadarxe: I got the binaries fot llvm back, now I am checking out pypy-dist23:11
rxesantagada: you lost them?23:14
santagadai sent you some private messages telling what happened23:16
rxe:-( my link is bad, i just got a hi 23:17
santagadarxe: well I got everything back now23:18
santagadarxe: did you see one failure at test_rint, something about a simple function that should return r_uint and is returning long?23:18
santagadarxe: this should be pretty easy to fix23:18
santagadarxe: maybe you should let this one to me23:19
rxesantagada: please do :-)23:19
rxesantagada: missing llong_floordiv_zer is a good one too ! 23:22
santagadarxe: why do we need ctypes on modwrapper? isn't there some stuff on rffi that makes this obsolete?23:28
rxectypes is an interface to the llvm entrypoint - so we can do testing from cpython.  23:28
rxesince llvm generates a .so file we need to call and query that function23:29
santagadarxe: well but we could do that using rffi or ll2ctypes or something right?23:30
rxejust for some background, we normally spawn a new process for each module.  this is to with boehm and some obscure error that happens if you install it too many times (or someth23:30
rxeermm - if you want to write your test in rpython and then compile the test23:31
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rxerffi and llctypes are for llvm to call externals.  we want to call the generated code from cpython23:32
rxemake any sense?23:34
santagadarxe: yes but now you can run rffi code on top of cpython... I was thinking about running the tests on top of pypy iteself in the future... but llctypes needs ctypes anyway, so it wouldn't make any diference23:38
santagadarxe: what shoud div_zer do?23:38
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rxesantagada: it should still work with applevel ctypes (when it exists)23:39
rxemeans you cant divide by zero with that operation23:41
santagadarxe: what should it mean in llvm? there is only div and rem there23:42
santagadarxe: and where do I get llvm 1.9 docs? the docs on the site only mention udiv and urem and srem not the ones you are using23:42
rxein genc there is int.h which has the magic for these operations.  for llvm these are rewritten in rpython and translated.23:42
rxesee: rpython/raisingops/raisingops.py23:43
rxethe llvm backend is really simple.  it is the all dangling parts that make it more tricky.23:44
xorAxAxa package for a single file with 263 LOCs :)23:44
rxexorAxAx: nice :-) 23:45
rxesantagada: if you go to the downloads - there are links to older docs there23:46
santagadarxe: so we should translate to "OpReprCall(op, self.db)"  or something?23:49
rxeyes just about all operations go through the opwriter - except for the raising int operations - which are transforrmed into a direct call to the link i gave above. 23:51
rxeso yes you could implement it there - but then there is the problem of how to raise the exception23:53
rxesee raisingop2direct_call.py  23:54
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rxestakkars: hi - i tried out my stackless mail account :-)23:57
stakkarsah, file23:58
stakkarsfine. do you have leopard, already?23:59
rxeno - my laptop seems to be creaking23:59
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