[00:07] <cfbolz> ok. I stop working on anything not math related immediately and wish everyone a nice (and relaxing!) weekend.
[00:07] <hpk> cfbolz: good idea
[00:07] <cfbolz> And Congratulations!!!
[00:08] <hpk> YES!!!!!
[00:08] <hpk> to you too, i mean!!
[00:08] <cfbolz> I feel very relieved!
[00:08] <hpk> you can tell
[00:08] <cfbolz> too bad we can't celebrate a bit
[00:09] <hpk> we can celebrate 0.7 at ep :-)
[00:09] <cfbolz> ok :-) see you then!
[00:09] <stakkars> yes that's fine, but still it feelslike a gap
[00:09] <cfbolz> right
[00:10] <stakkars> hmm, once that I started writing, I can't stop it.
[00:10] <stakkars> adding to translation.txt
[00:10] <hpk> well, be aware that people are surfing these pages right now
[00:10] <hpk> and nobody is there to proof-read anything
[00:11] <cfbolz> goodnight
[00:11] <stakkars> not checking in, then.
[00:11] cfbolz (~cfbolz@hdlb-d9b95ec8.pool.mediaWays.net) left irc: "Verlassend"
[00:11] <hpk> then again i shouldn't stop you from writing documentation :-)
[00:12] <hpk> it's tough enough to get everyone beaten to it and you are one of the toughest :-)
[00:12] <stakkars> I want to explain how all the litle code snippets are handled,cached and such.
[00:12] <stakkars> Actually that shouldgo into the gateway documentation, but for now I think it makes sense.
[00:12] <hpk> the current documentation has been proof-read a couple of times by various people
[00:13] <hpk> and we definitely need an interpreter-chapter that we can reference
[00:13] <stakkars> no chance,I always find another typo
[00:13] <hpk> but i am really stopping now ...
[00:13] <hpk> see you!
[00:13] <stakkars> bye
[00:13] Nick change: hpk -> hpk_away
[00:26] Action: stakkars is thinking if it would be better to have a way to freeze the docs as well
[00:29] aleale (~redorlik@cpe.atm0-0-0-129140.0x3ef2fa3a.bynxx3.customer.tele.dk) joined #pypy.
[00:38] aleale (~redorlik@cpe.atm0-0-0-129140.0x3ef2fa3a.bynxx3.customer.tele.dk) left irc: "BitchX sucks"
[00:45] aleale (~redorlik@cpe.atm0-0-0-129140.0x3ef2fa3a.bynxx3.customer.tele.dk) joined #pypy.
[00:45] <aleale> Hi stakkars, are you there?
[00:48] <aleale> I've got 81 failures with test_all.py and 32 with py.test - trying to delete pyc's
[00:49] <aleale> ImportError no module named _formatting
[00:56] stakkars (~tismer@rosine27.inf.fu-berlin.de) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host)
[00:57] aleale (~redorlik@cpe.atm0-0-0-129140.0x3ef2fa3a.bynxx3.customer.tele.dk) left irc: "*monkey grin*"
[01:07] aleale (~redorlik@cpe.atm0-0-0-129140.0x3ef2fa3a.bynxx3.customer.tele.dk) joined #pypy.
[01:08] <aleale> sorry - all tests passes. Forgot to delete the cache. goodnight
[01:08] aleale (~redorlik@cpe.atm0-0-0-129140.0x3ef2fa3a.bynxx3.customer.tele.dk) left irc: Client Quit
----- silence for 5 hr and 21 minutes ----- [06:29] tea (~tea@cap049-090.kcn.ne.jp) left irc: Remote closed the connection
----- silence for 2 hr and 54 minutes ----- [09:23] dialtone (~user@host111-56.pool80117.interbusiness.it) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host)
----- silence for 1 hr and 45 minutes ----- [11:08] Nick change: hpk_away -> hpk
----- silence for 1 hr and 9 minutes ----- [12:17] cfbolz (~cfbolz@hdlb-d9b946a7.pool.mediaWays.net) joined #pypy.
[12:17] <cfbolz> morning
[12:17] <cfbolz> hpk: Is this only in dist or also in the release?
[12:17] <hpk> cfbolz: not clear yet
[12:17] <hpk> hi carl :-)
[12:17] Action: hpk is 5 minutes busy
[12:17] <cfbolz> hi!
[12:18] <cfbolz> I'm away instantly anyway :-)
[12:20] <cfbolz> arghh! It's in the release!
[12:23] <hpk> what exactly is in the release?
[12:23] <hpk> the _formatting problem?
[12:25] <cfbolz> yes
[12:27] <hpk> i see, starting py.py twice is the culprit
[12:27] <cfbolz> You mean python py.py py.py
[12:27] <cfbolz> or in two sessions
[12:27] <cfbolz> ?
[12:28] <hpk> i mean python py.py
[12:28] <hpk> then "print %s" % 3
[12:28] <hpk> then quit
[12:28] <hpk> then python py.py
[12:28] <hpk> print "%s" % §3 -> crash
[12:28] <cfbolz> ouch. That's _very_ bad!
[12:29] <hpk> indeed
[12:29] <cfbolz> shit shit shit shit.
[12:29] <cfbolz> sorry
[12:30] <hpk> i agree anyway
[12:30] <cfbolz> I thought you were joking yesterday!
[12:30] <hpk> me too
[12:30] <cfbolz> :-(
[12:30] <cfbolz> What do we do now?
[12:30] <hpk> i am tempted to just revert to the rev three days ago
[12:30] <hpk> and copy the current situation to some branch
[12:31] <cfbolz> hmm.
[12:31] <cfbolz> what happens if we you throw the switch christian built in?
[12:31] <hpk> the releaseed pypy seems more unstable than the dist-one during the last couple month
[12:32] <cfbolz> I'd just revert to the pre print works in genc thing
[12:32] <hpk> i am going to wait for a few more people dropping by
[12:33] <cfbolz> Did you check the download count?
[12:33] <hpk> which download count? :-)
[12:33] <cfbolz> you're not counting downloads?
[12:33] arigo (~arigo@c-3a8b70d5.022-54-67626719.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #pypy.
[12:33] <hpk> cfbolz: not directly
[12:33] <hpk> cfbolz: but you can grep through log files
[12:33] <hpk> arigo: hi armin
[12:34] <arigo> hi!
[12:34] <cfbolz> hi
[12:34] <hpk> arigo: did you already hear that the release is broken?
[12:34] <cfbolz> hpk: that's good enough :-)
[12:35] <hpk> cfbolz: i think the count is >100 (but i would need to look at all the log files, don't know if they got rotated)
[12:36] <cfbolz> that's bad
[12:36] <hpk> arigo: do twice: python py.py -c "print '%s' % 3" on the released pypy
[12:36] <hpk> cfbolz: yip
[12:37] <hpk> so i am indeed thinking of a 0.6.1 that we put on the web page and at least announce to comp.lang.announce
[12:37] <arigo> hpk: I see
[12:38] <hpk> and i'd like 0.6.1 to be a known working pypy not some added hack to what we have now
[12:38] <hpk> the current dist should be copied to a branch
[12:38] <hpk> hum, but then it's not so easy, unfortunately :-(
[12:39] <arigo> hpk: we can copy release/0.6 and make the bug fix in that branch
[12:40] <hpk> arigo: you mean copy release/0.6 to 0.6.1 ?
[12:40] <arigo> maybe directly, yes (I thought about a branch inbetween)
[12:40] <hpk> yes makes sense
[12:40] <hpk> release/0.6 -> branch/0.6.x
[12:40] <arigo> yes
[12:40] <hpk> i am doing it
[12:41] <arigo> next time we need such a branch a few days in advance, so that normal work can continue to go to dist/ or trunk/
[12:42] <hpk> yeah, we need to think a bit about the exact details
[12:42] <arigo> yes.
[12:42] <hpk> also with respect to documentation which is currently coming from dist
[12:42] <cfbolz> sorry, I have to go (there's probably not much I can do anyway)
[12:42] <arigo> yes
[12:42] <arigo> see you
[12:43] <hpk> cfbolz: sure, you learn for your exams :-)
[12:43] <hpk> cfbolz: see you
[12:43] <cfbolz> yes
[12:43] cfbolz (~cfbolz@hdlb-d9b946a7.pool.mediaWays.net) left irc: "Verlassend"
[12:43] <hpk> arigo: opened the 0.6.x branch
[12:44] <hpk> do you have an idea how to fix things already?
[12:44] <hpk> i didn't really follow the last two days core changes due to all the other stuff
[12:45] <arigo> yes, the problem is obvious :-(
[12:45] <arigo> stringobject.py contains "import _formatting" in an app-level helper
[12:45] <arigo> which gets geninterp'ed
[12:45] <arigo> into a version that contains a CPython-level "import _formatting"
[12:45] <hpk> hua
[12:46] <arigo> indeed
[12:46] Action: hpk is meanwhile trying to fix all the references to 0.6 to become 0.6.1
[12:47] <hpk> hum, not sure though how to go about that exactly
[12:47] Action: hpk is out 5 minutes
[12:47] <lac-out4dinner> do we know how many people dl 0.6 ? It might be easier to just name what Armin fixes as 0.6 ....
[12:48] Nick change: lac-out4dinner -> lac
[12:52] ericvrp (~chatzilla@ericvrp.demon.nl) joined #pypy.
[12:53] ericvrp (~chatzilla@ericvrp.demon.nl) left irc: Client Quit
[12:54] ericvrp (~chatzilla@ericvrp.demon.nl) joined #pypy.
[12:55] <hpk> arigo: hum, i am tempted to just fix the web page to contain downloads for 0.6.1
[12:55] <hpk> and send a custom announcement/correction to the lists
[12:55] <arigo> yes -- what else?
[12:55] <hpk> well, our documents speak often of the "0.6" release everywhere
[12:55] <arigo> ah, ok
[12:56] <arigo> no, I guess it's fine to just fix the direct links
[12:56] Action: hpk wasn'T prepared to do any work today let alone work that requires thinking
[13:01] <arigo> should work now, testing...
[13:07] Action: hpk also has a strange autopath problem with pypy/bin/py.py
[13:07] <hpk> which gets fixed if i insert a __init__.py into pypy/bin/
[13:08] <hpk> too many people hacked on autopath.py
[13:10] <hpk> arigo: i packaged 0.6.1 for testing purposes with your fixes
[13:10] <hpk> http://codespeak.net/download/pypy/
[13:14] <hpk> arigo: so far it looks good
[13:15] <hpk> did you also try?
[13:15] <arigo> yes
[13:15] <arigo> autopath.py is incredible
[13:15] <hpk> yes
[13:15] <hpk> but it didn'ts tart like this
[13:15] <hpk> bob added a couple of obscure hacks
[13:16] <hpk> for example, autopath originally put the pypy-containing at the beginning of sys.path IIRC
[13:17] <hpk> well, but anyway
[13:18] <hpk> should we put the packages and links online now?
[13:18] <arigo> what is your autopath problem?
[13:19] <hpk> pypy/tool/sourcetools.py sees pypy/bin/py.py for "import py"
[13:19] <hpk> i am not yet exactly sure how so
[13:19] <arigo> in which situation?
[13:19] <hpk> but i think that autopath should ensure that the determined pypy-dir is really first on the path
[13:20] <hpk> python pypy/bin/py.py
[13:20] <arigo> I mean, I cannot reproduce the problem
[13:20] <hpk> yes, i can only reproduce it on codespeak
[13:20] <hpk> i guess it's some custom path setting
[13:20] <arigo> PYTHONPATH?
[13:21] <hpk> no, something else
[13:21] <arigo> (or just do it in screen)
[13:29] <arigo> ok, it's still a bit mysterious but just a dev-issue for later...
[13:29] <hpk> yes, i guess so
[13:29] <arigo> figuring out why windows end-of-lines confuse Unix py.py.
[13:29] <arigo> including autopath, which is currently above my guesses...
[13:30] <arigo> maybe put a note in getting-started, that the zip version doesn't work on Unix and probably vice-versa
[13:33] <hpk> website is updated
[13:34] <arigo> ok
[13:35] <hpk> so we don't care that the README and friends talk of 0.6 all the time, i guess
[13:35] <arigo> no
[13:36] Action: arigo forward-ports the bug fix to pypy/dist/
[13:36] <hpk> good idea
[13:37] <arigo> the testresult page looks very bad right now...
[13:37] <hpk> i was thinking of that in fact
[13:37] <hpk> (that was the first thing i noticed this morning, while enjoying a nice beginning of day :-)
[13:37] <arigo> fun fun fun
[13:37] <hpk> just revert the last round of test results?
[13:37] <arigo> yes, if easy
[13:38] <arigo> svn rm them, maybe
[13:39] <hpk> did that
[13:40] <hpk> better, but not good
[13:40] <hpk> apparently i was the only one runnig tests lately
[13:40] <arigo> ah ha
[13:40] <arigo> yes, I don't run them all daily, far from it
[13:41] <arigo> checked in
[13:42] <arigo> maybe you should revert your directory to the status of last week...
[13:42] <hpk> yeah, i geuss so :-(
[13:43] <arigo> uh, no
[13:43] <arigo> Carl's numerous failures are from the 17th of May
[13:43] <hpk> it's better now
[13:43] <hpk> look again
[13:43] <arigo> yes
[13:44] <arigo> very strange
[13:45] <arigo> we need a warning mail to pypy-dev when one or more tests go from OK to ERR
[13:45] <hpk> or just file an issue
[13:46] <arigo> :-)
[13:46] <hpk> spamming pypy-dev with almost 200 subscribers might be a bit much :-)
[13:46] <arigo> right
[13:46] <hpk> and at best assign it to the person who caused it :-)
[13:46] <arigo> :-)
[13:46] <arigo> btw, can we file a new issue by e-mail?
[13:46] <hpk> yes
[13:46] <hpk> simply mail there
[13:46] <hpk> i mean the pypy-dev-issue at codespeak.net
[13:47] <arigo> ok
[13:47] <hpk> i guess you can set properties in the subject line as usual
[13:47] <arigo> good
[13:47] <hpk> although i would generally prefer if roundup had a way to change things in the body
[13:47] <hpk> so that one could uniformly used it from svn-checkin and mail
[13:48] <hpk> so where do we mail?
[13:50] <arigo> pypy-dev, python-announce?
[13:52] <hpk> i am mailing python-announce
[13:52] <hpk> you reply to your message on pypy-dev?
[13:52] <arigo> ok, that leaves pypy-dev for me, yes
[13:53] <hpk> you can also mail python-announce but it's maybe confusing if the messages come from different persons
[13:53] <hpk> people might think that we are arguing :-)
[13:53] <arigo> no, they wouldn't think that :-)
[13:54] <arigo> (here you must answer "yes, they would")
[13:54] <hpk> they certainly would
[13:56] <hpk> btw, if we had advertised pypy/dist as being the latest released version ....
[13:56] <hpk> then i could simply recommend "svn up"
[13:57] <hpk> the "btw" relates to the argument thingie of course :-)
[13:58] <arigo> well :-) we could advertise the branch/0.6.x then ?
[13:58] <hpk> not really, because that is moving in steps possibly as well
[13:59] <hpk> and next month it's going to be 0.7
[13:59] <arigo> yes, I see the point
[13:59] <hpk> :-)
[14:00] <arigo> can you easily prevent check-ins into, say, pypy/dist, while allowing removing-and-replacing the dist directory itself?
[14:00] <hpk> not sure, i can certainly restrict to very few people or just a single person
[14:00] <hpk> which is probably good enough
[14:01] <arigo> right
[14:01] <arigo> there are more issues, though
[14:01] <arigo> e.g. which version of the documentation/ should the website show?
[14:02] pedronis (~Samuele_P@c-3a8b70d5.022-54-67626719.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #pypy.
[14:02] <arigo> and against which version should the CPython tests run daily?
[14:02] <hpk> is this subject line for python-announce-list ok:
[14:02] <hpk> PyPy 0.6.1 bugfix release / 0.6 broken
[14:02] <hpk> ?
[14:03] <arigo> is "0.6 broken" needed?
[14:03] lypanov (~alex@a80-126-190-213.adsl.xs4all.nl) joined #pypy.
[14:03] <hpk> well, it was broken, wasn't it?
[14:03] <lypanov> congratz you guys :)
[14:03] <arigo> yes, but so soon after the 0.6, it's obvious that 0.6.1 is a needed bugfix
[14:03] <hpk> lypanov: thanks :-)
[14:03] <hpk> arigo: ok
[14:03] <lypanov> (and gals in fact ;))
[14:04] <arigo> lypanov: thanks -- though I guess you're talking about 0.6 and don't know yet that 0.6.1 has been released
[14:04] <lypanov> arigo: hehe. actually i just read your mail which reminded me to sign in at a sane time ;)
[14:04] <lypanov> (like, now as opposed to 3 am last night)
[14:05] dialtone (~user@host51-0.pool21345.interbusiness.it) joined #pypy.
[14:12] <arigo> hpk: just a note, Christian found out about the problem and mention it in a 5am check-in message... and nowhere else
[14:12] <hpk> i see
[14:12] <hpk> with "deliverable" he means the release
[14:13] <arigo> yes, it's exactly the problem I fixed too
[14:13] <lypanov> arigo: side note, nothing automated will fix the need for a .1 if you don't do pre releases to a larger audience...
[14:13] <lypanov> something *always* goes wrong
[14:14] <hpk> probably
[14:14] <pedronis> we could have done a release candidate
[14:14] <pedronis> anyway large changes that needs 2 days of bug fixing should be a no-no the next time around
[14:15] <hpk> i guess we may want to appoint a person who controls the release tree starting two/three days before the release
[14:15] <hpk> but let's discuss this or other suggestions later
----- silence for 21 minutes ----- [14:36] dialtone (~user@host51-0.pool21345.interbusiness.it) left irc: Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)
[14:47] Rhamphoryncus (~rhamph@rhamphoryncus.user) joined #pypy.
[14:47] <Rhamphoryncus> hmm surprisingly empty
[14:47] <hpk> what did you expect?
[14:47] <hpk> everybody is released
[14:47] <hpk> kind of
[14:48] <Rhamphoryncus> huh?
[14:48] <Rhamphoryncus> I'd expect the release to *increase* activity, atleast with all the tourists :)
[14:48] Action: lypanov hasn't been released yet
----- silence for 44 minutes ----- [15:32] dialtone (~user@host51-0.pool21345.interbusiness.it) joined #pypy.
[15:32] <lypanov> Rhamphoryncus: its a very very quiet room generally anyway :)
[15:32] <lypanov> Rhamphoryncus: and not many people even understand what pypy is for ;)
[15:36] <Rhamphoryncus> heh
[15:36] <Rhamphoryncus> their loss :)
[15:37] <lypanov> yup. but then the lack of understanding is already pretty much there loss :)
[15:37] <lypanov> s/ere/eir/
[15:43] Nick change: hpk -> hpk_away
[15:46] dialtone (~user@host51-0.pool21345.interbusiness.it) left irc: Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)
[15:46] <arigo> as a side note, I am back to working on C code generation now
[16:01] Gromit (~bear@A3692.a.pppool.de) joined #pypy.
----- silence for 1 hr and 21 minutes ----- [17:22] Gromit (~bear@A3692.a.pppool.de) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
[17:22] Gromit (~bear@A3682.a.pppool.de) joined #pypy.
[17:28] dialtone (~user@host72-0.pool21345.interbusiness.it) joined #pypy.
[17:43] Nick change: hpk_away -> hpk
[17:43] <hpk> arigo: you don't even feel like resting, i guess
[17:46] <hpk> pedronis: ayt?
[17:47] <pedronis> yes
[17:47] <pedronis> hpk: yes
[17:47] <hpk> i think it would be a good idea to mail squeak-dev
[17:47] <hpk> we talked about this earlier
[17:48] <pedronis> I see
[17:48] <hpk> do you agree?
[17:49] <pedronis> yes, but I would contact Markus (?) or the Impara people to figure out an intro to annoucenment
[17:50] <hpk> pedronis: i could mail Markus and ask him to forward it appropriately
[17:50] <pedronis> yes
[17:50] <hpk> are you subscribed to squeak-dev?
[17:50] <pedronis> no
[17:50] <pedronis> sometimes I skim it
[17:51] <pedronis> I'm just aware that some part of the smalltalk communities are less friendly to different languages that for example the python community itself
[17:51] dialtone (~user@host72-0.pool21345.interbusiness.it) left irc: Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)
[17:51] <pedronis> (disclaimer: generalizing etc)
[17:54] Action: lypanov grins
[17:54] <lypanov> one random guy doing a ruby iirc (peter suk)
[17:55] <lypanov> seems to be an intelligent guy... but... hell, i place my trust in pypy and my own project :)
[17:55] <hpk> lypanov: hey, but you may forward the announcement to some appropriate ruby-list :-)
[17:56] <hpk> quite a bit of ou architecture should be kind of language independent anyway
[17:56] Action: lypanov isn't actually on any ruby list anymore
[17:56] <lypanov> hehe. kind of? :P
[17:57] <lypanov> (the ruby lists are hellish wrt s/n)
[17:57] Gromit (bear@A3682.a.pppool.de) left #pypy ("Client Exiting").
[18:00] <hpk> s/b ?
[18:00] <hpk> s/n?
[18:01] <pedronis> signal/noise ratio
[18:10] <hpk> i sent the mail to Marcus
[18:15] <hpk> arigo: just to be sure and before i forget it: you did see that i changed the architecture document after your recent mission statement checkins?
[18:19] <arigo> I remember you were changing it, yes -- didn't look so far
----- silence for 1 hr and 3 minutes ----- [19:22] dialtone (~user@host111-56.pool80117.interbusiness.it) joined #pypy.
----- silence for 1 hr and 3 minutes ----- [20:25] -deedra (dmwaters@dmwaters-osuosl.staff.freenode) to $*- {global notice} Hi all! In a little more then 12 hours, I will begin major maintenence on the network. For more information, please see 'http://www.freenode.net/news.shtml' Thank you for your patience, and thank you for using freenode!
----- silence for 49 minutes ----- [21:14] ericvrp (~chatzilla@ericvrp.demon.nl) left irc: "Chatzilla 0.9.68.3 [Firefox 1.0.4/20050511]"
----- silence for 20 minutes ----- [21:34] bbailey (~bbailey@adsl-146-20-126.mia.bellsouth.net) left irc: "Leaving"
----- silence for 16 minutes ----- [21:50] bbailey (~bbailey@adsl-146-20-126.mia.bellsouth.net) joined #pypy.
[21:54] cfbolz (~cfbolz@hdlb-d9b95eec.pool.mediaWays.net) joined #pypy.
[21:54] <cfbolz> hi!
[21:54] <cfbolz> hpk: you there?
[21:54] <hpk> hi carl!
[21:54] <hpk> i think so
[21:54] <hpk> i am at this minute reading your posting on llvm-dev :-)
[21:54] <hpk> telepathy seams to work reasonably well
[21:54] <lypanov> hehe
[21:54] <cfbolz> :-)
[21:55] <cfbolz> did you see the announcement of yet another testing thing called PyTest?
[21:55] <hpk> i am actually thinking of joining you in the LLVM efforts :-)
[21:55] <hpk> yes, i did
[21:55] <hpk> unfortunate naming clash
[21:55] <cfbolz> cool!
[21:55] <cfbolz> sorry, I mean you joining me of course
[21:55] <hpk> i thought so
[21:56] <hpk> it's the second time somebody releases something called pytest
[21:56] <hpk> i guess i really need to do a fully official release
[21:56] <cfbolz> yes.
[21:56] <hpk> yesterday during the release frenzy a gentoo guy came by and wanted to package it
[21:56] <hpk> yet another person pressing me to do a release :-)
[21:56] bbailey (~bbailey@adsl-146-20-126.mia.bellsouth.net) left irc: "Leaving"
[21:57] <cfbolz> but you're probably having enough of releases lately
[21:57] <hpk> not really
[21:57] <hpk> in some ways i think it also moves things forward
[21:57] <hpk> more than what would happen usually
[21:57] <cfbolz> especially documentation
[21:58] <hpk> yes, but writing documentation also servers to reflect the current situation
[21:58] <hpk> and how reasonable it is to explain it
[21:58] <hpk> and it serves to share a common picture
[21:58] <hpk> including details
[21:58] <hpk> "reflect" in the ense of thinking
[21:58] <hpk> the german sense in fact :-)
[21:59] <cfbolz> :-)
[21:59] <cfbolz> yes, that's true. I learned a lot about other parts of PyPy
[21:59] <cfbolz> especially geninterp
[22:01] <cfbolz> "reflect" kann mean reflektieren, too
[22:01] <cfbolz> can, of course :-)
[22:01] <hpk> yip
[22:02] <hpk> well, anyway, i'll still want to re-find a way into the translation part
[22:02] <hpk> i have been out of that loop a bit lately
[22:02] <hpk> btw, we use SSA in translation.txt as single style assignment
[22:02] <hpk> but that is found nowhere on the web
[22:02] <hpk> where its always static single assignment
[22:03] <cfbolz> right
[22:03] <hpk> that's a bug
[22:03] <hpk> i guess
[22:03] <hpk> and finally i am understanding that phi-function stuff :-)
[22:04] <hpk> i mean, i likely learned that in my compiler courses at some point
[22:04] <hpk> but well
[22:04] <cfbolz> yes, our links make that very easy to understand
[22:05] <cfbolz> I think our university doesn't even offer compiler courses :-)
[22:06] <hpk> we don't have any SSA references
[22:06] <hpk> and deliver the wrong wording for it, btw :-)
[22:07] <hpk> do you know if "straight-line code" has any formal definition?
[22:07] <hpk> it's used a lot
[22:07] <cfbolz> I don't understand it
[22:07] <hpk> for example: http://www.flex-compiler.lcs.mit.edu/Harpoon/quads/node3.html
[22:08] <cfbolz> The wikipedia article about SSA is very good, btw.
[22:08] <cfbolz> straight-line code sounds like "without branching constructs"
[22:09] <hpk> it's probably some banality like this
[22:10] <cfbolz> I'm quite sure, because it is mentioned as the contrary of "branching code"
[22:10] <hpk> makes sense
[22:12] <cfbolz> I'm going back to math-land.
[22:12] <cfbolz> Let's discuss genllvm next week.
[22:12] <hpk> sure
[22:13] <hpk> good luck
[22:13] <cfbolz> see you
[22:13] <cfbolz> Yes, I'll really need that
[22:13] <cfbolz> (the prof told me last time I had "Mut zur Luecke" :-) )
[22:14] <hpk> :-)
[22:14] <cfbolz> bye
[22:14] cfbolz (~cfbolz@hdlb-d9b95eec.pool.mediaWays.net) left irc: "Verlassend"
----- silence for 18 minutes ----- [22:32] fredrik (fredrik@c83-248-135-181.bredband.comhem.se) joined #pypy.
[22:37] -lilo (lilo@levin-pdpc.staff.freenode) to $*- [Global Notice] Hi all. As reported previously, we're going to have major downtime in about 11 hours.... for an update on the downtime and on fundraising, please take a look at http://freenode.net/news.shtml .... thank you for your patience, and thank you for using freenode!
----- silence for 40 minutes ----- [23:17] <lypanov> k. gtg :)
[23:17] lypanov (alex@a80-126-190-213.adsl.xs4all.nl) left #pypy.
----- silence for 19 minutes ----- [23:36] stakkars (sjsjoubq@i528C13E8.versanet.de) joined #pypy.
[23:40] <arigo> hi!
[23:40] <stakkars> hi!
[23:41] <stakkars> that _formatting problem (caused by the quick hack at importing) -- I thought I checked the correction in last night?
[23:42] <arigo> stakkars: yes, sorry
[23:42] <arigo> what we did was:
[23:42] <arigo> copy release/0.6 into a new "branch/0.6.x"
[23:43] <arigo> fix this specific problem (and touch nothing else)
[23:43] <arigo> make the release 0.6.1
[23:43] <stakkars> without checking that I fixed this already
[23:43] <arigo> yes
[23:43] <arigo> then I merged the change to the dist, and found out just after that you already did, so cancelled by changes.
[23:43] <stakkars> ah ok
[23:43] <arigo> stakkars: anyway we couldn't have used your changes easily, as we wanted *only* a minimal fix
[23:44] <arigo> it could have been separated. the truth is just that we didn't notice.
[23:45] <arigo> (you might have sent a warning e-mail to pypy-dev and/or opened an issue, though, when you noticed)
[23:45] <stakkars> sure (and hpk's reaction is not applicable)
[23:45] <arigo> I'm not sure what you are referring to
[23:45] <stakkars> oh, I thought the checkin was enough. Will do next time.
[23:46] <arigo> well, we gave the release a lot of "meaning". being broken was extremely bad, in the opinion of not just me.
[23:47] <stakkars> the fact is that we just found a problem too late that I caused days before.
[23:47] <arigo> days == 2
[23:47] <arigo> if anything it showed that we need a release branch at least three days before the release, with *no* changes in it but important fixes.
[23:47] bbailey (~bbailey@adsl-146-20-126.mia.bellsouth.net) joined #pypy.
[23:48] <arigo> I'll stress again that you shouldn't have gone off and work on "print" for so long without giving or asking for feedback...
[23:48] <stakkars> so you are in fact mad at me.
[23:48] <arigo> no
[23:48] <arigo> the result is great.
[23:48] <arigo> it's the style and timing...
[23:49] <stakkars> then we take it again asalesson andlook forward?
[23:49] <arigo> definitely
[23:49] <arigo> we have been working today on C generation again, you might want to have a look too
[23:50] <arigo> we can generate static structures for any kind of global data, translator/c/test/test_database.py
[23:50] <stakkars> absolutely! I have though about things quite a lot, and I think the rtyper approach is
[23:51] <stakkars> absolutely applicable to geninterp, too.
[23:51] <stakkars> btw. I stepped into a problem with genc when it tries to create an empty tuple.
[23:51] <stakkars> did you see this before?
[23:52] <stakkars> (looking into svn updates)
[23:54] <arigo> hum, it's somehow bad that we didn't meet in person after all
[23:54] <arigo> discussing these things face-to-face would have made much more sense
[23:55] <arigo> at this point, genc is going away, and building geninterp on top of rtyper seems to be a far-away goal --
[23:55] <arigo> if I may say so, I'd think that you shouldn't try to go in that direction at the moment
[23:56] <stakkars> whatever the replacement of genc does, it replaces things with simpler things, which I would like to do, too.
[23:56] <stakkars> I mean, is the direction wrong?
[23:57] <arigo> in the long-term I have no clue -- maybe not. right now, probably.
[23:57] <arigo> you can't just drop rtyper in geninterp, you need to annotate app-level code in the middle -- and that's a lot of new problems
[23:57] <stakkars> what I mean is: the genc (or what is it now) takes what we write in interp-level and produces great code.
[23:58] <stakkars> what I produce is just bad because I don't do annotation.
[23:58] <arigo> the annotator isn't meant for applevel code
[23:58] <stakkars> If I did, the produced code could be as good as the handwritten stuff that you can digest so well.
[23:58] <stakkars> why is there any difference at all?
[23:58] <arigo> the flowspace wasn't meant for applevel, and you managed to use it nevertheless (with sys.path hacks (!))
[23:58] <arigo> the annotator is much more complicated than the flowspace
[23:59] <arigo> so I'm very very afraid, at the moment
[23:59] <stakkars> there is one thing that's definately applevel and a simple application at the same time.
[23:59] <stakkars> the rpystone program is such a beast that runs great with the annotator.
[00:00] --- Sun May 22 2005